Marginalia1555. Iuly.gatory all ready past and done, not to come and remaining to be done.

MarginaliaA note of the wordes or talke passed betwene Nicolas Sheterdē and the B. of Winchester.I Was called into a chamber before the L. Chauncellour, the Suffragan, & other, Priestes, I thinke, for the most part. He stāding to the table called me to him, and because I saw the Cardinall was not there, I bowed my selfe  

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Sheterden is bowing to Gardiner, his social superiour.

Then sayd he, I haue sent for you, because I heare you are indyted of heresy: and being called before the Cōmissioners ye wil not aūswere nor submit your self.

MarginaliaVniust imprisonment of Sheterden.I sayd, if it lyke you, I dyd not refuse to aunswer: but I dyd plainly aunswere, that I had beene in prison long time, and reason it was that I should be charged or discharged for that, & not to bee examined of articles to hyde my wrong imprisonment: neither did I know any inditement against me. If there were any, it could not be iust, for I was not abroad since the lawe was made.

Winch. Well, yet if such suspition be of you, if you be a Christian ye wyll declare that it is not true, and so purge your selfe.

Shet. I thought it sufficient to aunswer to my offences. &c. trusting that they would lay no such burden vpon me, whereby the wrong done to me might be couered, but I would be proued to haue wrong or right.

Winch. He sayd, if thou wylt declare thy selfe to the church to be a Christian, thou shalt go, and then haue a wryt of wrong imprisonment. &c.

Shet. I sayd I was not mynded to sue now, but require to haue right iustice: but to make a promise I wyll not: but if I offend þ^e law, thē punish accordingly. For it might be that my consciēce was not perswaded, nor would be in prison, seyng those thynges whych I haue learned, were by Gods law openly taught and receaued by authority of the Realme. And he said, it was neuer receiued that I might speake against the sacrament. I sayd, against some opinion of the sacrament it was openly taught.

MarginaliaWinchest. maketh a miracle that there was no law in K. Edwardes time against the sacrament of the altar.Winch. By no law, and that was notable to consider, that all that while God preserued that, so that no law could passe against it.

Shet. I said their law did not only perswade me, but this most: when they preached vnto vs, they tooke pain to set out the word of God in our tong, so that we may reade and iudge whether they say true or no: but now they take the light from vs, and would haue vs beleue it, bicause they say so, which is to me a great perswasiō.

MarginaliaThe Catholickes stand vpon there nūber.Winch. It was not a few that could be your guyde in vnderstanding, but the Doctours and all the whole church: Now, whom wouldest thou beleue? either the few, or the many?

MarginaliaThe faithful stand vpon the word.Shet. I did not beleue for the few, nor for the many, but onely for that he bringeth the word, and sheweth it to me, to be so according to the processe therof. &c.

Winch. Well said he, then if the Arian  

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Arianism was a fourth-century heresy which denied the divinity of Christ and the equality of the members of the Trinity.

Shet. I aunswered, no my Lord, he must bring me also the cōtrary places and proue them both true, wher he sayth: My father and I am one.

Winch. Yea, sayd he, that is by charity, as we be one wyth hym.

Shet. I said, that glose would not stand with the rest of the scripture, where he sayd: I am the very same that I say to you: He said the truth, & the truth was God. &c with much such like. And here he made many wordes (but very gently) of þ^e sacrament: Likewise CHRIST sayd (quoth he) it was his body: yea that is to say, a figure of his body: and how mē did not consider þ^e word was God, and God the worde, & so prouoked me with such temptation: but I let him alone and sayd nothing.

So after many woordes hee came to the churches

fayth, and comely order of ceremonies & images. And then I ioyned to hym againe with the cōmaundemēts.

MarginaliaWinchester defendeth Images.Winch. He sayd that was done that no false thyng should be made, as the Heathen would worship a Cat because she kylled Myse.

Shet. I sayd it was plaine that the lawe forbad not onely such, but euen to make an image of God to any maner of lykenes.

Winch. Where finde ye that?

Shet. Forsooth in the law, where God gaue them the commaundements, for he said: Ye saw no shape, but heard a voyce onely: and added a reason why: lest they should after make images and marre them selues, so that God would not shew his shape, because MarginaliaNo image of God to be made.they should haue no image of him which was the true God. &c.

Winch. He sayd I made a goodly  

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Excellent, admirable [OED]. Gardiner is being ironic.

Sheter. I sayd no, it was the text.

Then was the Bible called for, and when it came, he bad me finde it, and I should straight be confounded with myne owne woordes: so that if there were any grace with me, I would trust myne own wit no more: and when I looked, it was Latin.

Winch. Why sayd he, can ye read no Latin?

Shet. No. Then was the English Bible brought. He bad me fynd it: and so I read it alowd: and then he sayd lo, here thou mayst see: this is no more to forbid the Image of God, then of any other beast, foule or fish (the place was Dent. iiijMarginaliaDeut. 4.). I sayd it did playnely forbid to make any of these to the Image of God, because no man myght knowe what shape hee was of. Therefore might no man say of any Image, this is an Image of God.

Winch. Well yet by your leaue, so much as was seene we may, that is of CHRIST, of the holy ghost: and the father appeared to Daniel like an old *Marginalia* But the commaundement sayth: Deut. 4. Thou shalt make no image of God either man or woman, &c. mā. &c.

Shet. That is no profe that we may make Images contrary to the commaundement: for though the holy Ghost appeared like a doue, yet hee was not lyke in shape, but in certayne qualities,Marginalia
The holy ghost like a doue in some qualities, but not in shape.
The qualities of this semed here to want in Winchest. and therefore when I saw þ^e doue which is Gods creature, in dede I might remember the spirite to bee simple and louing. &c. And with that he was some what moued, and sayd I had learned my lesson, and asked who taught me: with many wordes: and he sayd, he would proue how good & profitable Images were to teach the vnlearned. &c. At the last I sayd: my Lorde, although I were able to make neuer so good a glose vpon the commaundementes, yet obedience is better then all our good intentes, and much ado we had: at last he saw, he sayd, what I was, and how he had sent for mee for charity sake to talke with me, but now hee would not medle, and sayd my wrong prisonment could not excuse mee, but I must cleare my selfe. I sayd that was easy for me to doe. For I had not offended.

Winch. He sayd I could not scape so: there I was deceaued.

Shet. I sayd: well then I am vnder the law. &c.

Arch. The Archdeacon was there called in for mee, and he layd to me, that with such arrogancy and stoutnes as neuer was heard, I behaued my selfe before him, whereas he was mynded with such mercy toward me. &c. and many lyes he layd to me,MarginaliaHow the catholickes falsely slaunder the faythfull innocent. that I was sent home tyll an other time: and I would not be contented but went out of the church with such an outcry as was notable.

Shet. I declared, that hee falsly herein reported mee, and brought in the lawes then in the Realme, and the Queenes proclamation, that none of her subiectes should be cōpelled tyll the law were to compell, & that I rehearsed þ^e same in þ^e Court for me, & I did vse him then (sayd I) as I vse your grace now, & no otherwise.

Winch. He sayd, that I did not vse my selfe very well now.

Shet. I sayd, I had offered my selfe to be bailed, and to confer with them, when and where they would.