MarginaliaAn. 1555. December.church? And I pray you tell mee, into what fayth were you baptised?

Phil. I acknowledge one holy catholicke and Apostolicke church, whereof I am a mēber (I praise God) and I am of that catholicke fayth of CHRIST, where into I was baptised.

Couen. I pray you, can you tell what this woord MarginaliaCatholicke.Catholicke doth signifie? shew if you can.

Phil. Yes that I can, I thanke God. The catholicke fayth, or the catholicke Church is not as nowe a dayes the people be taught, to be that which is most vniuersall, or of most part of men receaued, wherby you do inferre our fayth to hang vpon the multitude,MarginaliaThe Popes fayth hangeth vpon the multitude. which is not so: but I esteeme the catholicke church to be as S. Austen defineth the same. æstimamus fidem catholicam a rebus præteritis, præsentibus, & futuris. i.  

MarginaliaFides catholica secundum August.We iudge (sayth he) the catholicke fayth, of that which hath bene, is, and shalbe. So that if you can bee able to proue that your fayth and Church hath bene from the beginning taught, and is, and shall bee: then may you count your selues catholike, otherwise not. And catholicke is a Greeke word compounded of κατὰ ,   which signifieth after or according, and ὅλον,   a summe, or principle, or whole. So that catholicke Church or Catholicke faith is as much to say, as the first, whole, soūd, or chiefest faith.

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Boner. Doth S. Austen say so as he alledgeth it? or doth hee meane as hee taketh the same? How say you master Curtop?

Curtop. In deede (my Lord) S. Augustine hath suche a saying, speaking against the Donatistes, that the catholicke fayth ought to be estemed of thinges in tymes past, and as they are practised according to the same, & ought to be through all ages, and not after a new maner, as the Donatistes began to professe.

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Phil. You haue sayd well M. Curtop, and after the meaning of S. Austen, and to confirme that which I haue sayd for the signification of catholicke.

Couent. Let the booke be seene my Lord.

Boner. I pray you my Lord be content, or in good faith I wyll breake euen of and let all alone. Do you thynke the catholike church (vntil it was within these few yeres in the which a few vpon singularity haue swerued from the same) hath erred?

Phil. I do not thinke that þ^e catholicke church cā erre in doctrine: but I require you to proue this church of Rome to be the catholicke church.

Curtop. I can proue that IreneusMarginaliaWhere M. Curtop findeth this, I can not say: but this I finde þ^t Eusebius doth reporte þ^t Irenæus did reproue Victor Bishop of Rome for his rash sentence in excommunicating the churches of Grece concerning the obseruation of the feast of Easter. Euseb. lib. 5. ca. 26. Socr. lib. 5. cap. 22.(which was wythin an hundred yeares after CHRIST) came to Victor then bishop of Rome, to aske hys aduise about the excommunication of certayne heretickes, the which hee woulde not haue done (by all lykelyhood) if he had not taken hym to be supreme head.

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Couent. Marke well this argumēt. How are you able to aunswer to the same? Aunswer if you can.

Phil. It is soone answered my Lord, for that it is of no force, neither this fact of Irenæus maketh no more for the supremacie of the bishop of Rome, then myne hath done which haue bene at Rome as well as hee, & might haue spoken with the Pope if I had list: and yet I would none in England dyd fauour hys supremacy more then I.

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S. Asse. You are the more to blame (by the faith of my body) for that you fauour the same no better, since all the catholicke church (vntill these fewe yeares) haue taken hym to be supreme head of the church, besides this good man Irenæus.

Phil. That is not likely, that Irenæus so tooke hym, or the primatiue church: for I am able to shew seuen generall Councels after Irenæus tyme wherein hee was neuer so taken, which may bee a sufficient proofe that the catholicke primatiue church neuer tooke hym for supreme head.

The other bish. This man will neuer bee satisfied, say what we can. It is but folly to reason any more w^t him.

Phil. Oh my Lordes, would you haue me satisfied with nothyng? Iudge (I pray you) who of vs hath better authoritie, hee which bringeth the example of one man goyng to Rome, or I that by these many generall Councels am able to proue, that he was neuer so takē

in many hundred yeares after CHRIST, as by Marginalia7. General Coūcels in which the Bishop of Rome was neuer takē for supreme head.Nicene, Ephesine the first and second, Calcedone, Constantinopolitane, Cathaginens. Aureliense.  

Couen. Why will ye not admit the Church of Rome to be the Catholicke Church?

Phil. Because it foloweth not the primatiue Catholicke Church, neither agreeth with the same, no more then an apple is like a nut.

Couen. Wherein doth it dissent?

Phil. It were to long to recite all, MarginaliaThe church of Rome dissenteth frō the primatiue church.but two thinges I will name: the supremacie and transubstantiation.

Curtop. As for Transubstantiation, albeit it was set forth and Decreed for an Article of faith not much aboue three hundreth yeares, yet it was alwayes beleued in the Church.

Boner. Yea that it was. Very well sayd of you Master Curtop.

Phil. Ye haue sayd right, that MarginaliaTransubstantiation is but a late plantation.Transubstantiation is but a late plātation of þ^e Byshop of Rome, & you are not able to shew any auncient writer, that þ^e primatiue Church did beleue any such thing: and with this Curtop shranke away. And immediatly after, the Ambassadour of Spayne came in, to whom my Lord of London went, leauing the other with me. To whom I sayd: my Lordes, if you can shew me that this Church of Rome (whereof you are members) is the true Catholicke Church, MarginaliaIohn Philpot returneth agayne to his issue.I shalbe content to be one therof, and as conformable to the same as you can require me in all thynges: for I know there is no saluation but within the Church.

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Couent. Can you disproue that the Church of Rome is not the Catholicke Church?

Phil. Yea that I am able: but I desire rather to heare of you for the proofe therof. And seyng I can not haue my request at your handes, neither be satisfied with any probable authoritie, MarginaliaRome is not the Catholicke church, and why?I will shew you good proofe why it is not. For if the primatiue Church were Catholicke, as it was in deede, & ought to be the forme and Scholemastres of the Church to the worldes end: then is not the Church of Rome now the Catholicke Church which dissenteth so farre from the same both in doctrine and vse of the Sacramentes.

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Couent. How proue you that þ^e Church of Rome now dissenteth in doctrine and vse the Sacramentes from the primatiue Church?

Phil. Compare the one with the other,MarginaliaComparison betwen the primatiue church and the Popes Catholicke church. and it will soone appeare, as you may see both in Eusebius and in other Ecclesiasticall and auncient writers.

Couent. What haue you to say more, why it is not the Catholicke Church?

Phil. Because it is not (by your owne interpretation of Catholicke) vniuersall neither neuer was, albeit you falsly persuade the people that it is so. MarginaliaThe fayth of the Popes church was neuer vniuersall.For the world beyng diuided in three partes, Asia, Africa, and Europa, ij. partes thereof, Asia and Africa professyng CHRIST as well as we, dyd neuer consent to the Church of Rome which is of Europa: which is a sufficient testimony that your fayth was neuer vniuersall.

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Couent. How proue you that?

Phil. All the Historiographers which write of the proceedynges of the Church, doe testifie the same. Besides that, this present time doth declare that to be true which I say. For at this present the Church of Asia and Africa doe not consent to the Church of Rome. Yea and besides all this, the most part of Europa doth not agree, neither allow the Church of Rome: as Germany, the kyngdome of Denmarke, the kyngdome of Poole, a great part of Fraūce, Englād & Zelād,  

which is a manifest probation that your Church is not vniuersall. And after this, the Bishop of London called away the other Byshops, and left with me diuers Gētlemen, with certaine of his Chaplaines, as Doct. Sauerson an Englishman, which had proceeded Doctour in Bonony,   who after began with me in this maner.

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Doct. Sauer. Master Philpot, I remember you beyond sea since the tyme you reasoned with a Frier (a notable