Marginalia1555. Decemb.learned mā) commyng from Venice to Padua in a barge.

Phil. I can not forget that, for the Frier threatned me to accuse me of heresie as soone as hee came to Padua, for that I talked with hym so boldly of the truth. He was no such learned man as you name hym to be, but onely in his schole points a good Purgatory Frier.  

D. Sauer. Well, he was a learned man for all that. And I am sory to heare that you this day hauyng communed with so many notable learned men, are no more conformable to them then you be.

Phil. I wilbe conformable to al them that be conformable to CHRIST in his word. And I pray you good M. Doctor, be not so conformable to please men more then God, contrary to your learnyng for worldly estimations sake.

D. Sauer. No that I am not. Vpō what occasiō should you thinke thus of me?

Phil. Vpon no euill that I do know of you, Master Doctour: but I speake as one wishyng that you should not be led away from the truth for promotions sake, as many Doctours be now adayes.

D. Sauer. I haue heard your argumentations hitherto, and me thinketh that a great many of the old auncient writers be agaynst you in that you do not allowe the Church of Rome neither the supremacy: for S. Cyprian (which is an old auncient writer) doth allow the Bishop of Rome to be the supreme head of the Church. MarginaliaFor the further debating of this matter that Cyprian doth alow no such thing, read the answer of Master Nowell to Master Dormen.

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phil. That I am sure of he doth not. For he writing vnto Cornelius then Byshop of Rome, calleth hym but his companion and felow Byshop, neither attributed to him the name either of Pope, or els of any other vsurped termes which now be ascribed to the Byshop of Rome to the settyng forth of his dignitie.

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D. Sauer. You can not bee able to shew that S. Cyprian calleth Cornelius his felow Byshop.

Phil. I wil wager with you that I am able to make, that I can shew it you in Cyprian, as I haue sayd.

D. Sauer. I will lay none other wager with you, but booke for booke, that it is not so.

Phil. I agree therto, & I pray you one of my Lordes Chaplaines to fet vs Cyprian hither for the trial hereof. And with that one of them went to my Lordes study and brought forth Cyprian, and by and by hee turned to the first booke of his Epistles, the 3. Epistle,MarginaliaCipri. lib. 1. Epist. 3. and there would haue seemed to haue gathered a strong Argument for the supremacy of the Byshop of Rome, because he sayth: It goeth not well with the Church when the hygh Priest is not obeyed, which supplieth the stede of CHRIST after Gods word, and the consent of his felow Bishops, and the agreement of the people.

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D. Sauer. How can you auoyd this place which maketh so plainly for the Bishop of Romes supremacy?

Phil. It maketh not so plaine, Master Doctour, on your side, as you gather, as by and by I will giue you to vnderstand. But first I challenge the wager which we made, that your booke is myne.MarginaliaDoctor Sauerson hath lost his book to Master Philpot. Cipri. lib. 4. Epist. 2. For here you may see that he calleth Cornelius his felow Byshop, as he doth also in other places. And now for þ^e vnderstanding of that place, you do miscōstrue it, to make þ^e high priest onely for the Byshop of Rome & otherwise then it was in his tyme. For there were by Nicene Coūcell 4. Patriarckes appointed, the Patriarke of Hierusalem, the Patriarke of Constantinople, the Patriarke of Alexandria, and the Patriarke of Rome, MarginaliaCap. 6. Nic. Conc. 3. Patriarkes only be named, to whō afterward the Patriarke of Constātinople was also ioyned. Ciprian hath also these wordes following in the same epistle: It was declared amongest vs, and it is also according to iustice and equity, that euery mans cause should be hearde where the fault was committed, and to euery seuerall Pastor there is a portion of the flocke appoynted to rule and gouerne, for the which hee must make an accoūt before God. MarginaliaCipri. lib. 4. Epist. 2.of which foure the Patriarke of Rome was placed lowest in the Coūcell and so continued many yearees, for the time of. vij. or viij. generall Councels, as I am able to shew. Therefore S. Cyprian wrytyng to Cornelius Patriarke of Rome  

(whom he calleth his fellow bishop) findeth him selfe offended, that certaine heretickes being iustly excommunicated by hym (as the Nouatians   were) dyd flie from his dioces, which was their chiefe Bishop, refusing to bee obedient to hym and to bee reformed, to the Bishop of Rome and to the Patriarcke of Constantinople, and there were receaued in communion of congregation, in derogation   of good order and discipline in the church, and to the mayntaining of heresies and schismes: and that heresies did spring vp

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& schismes dayly aryse hereof, that obedience was not geuen to the Priest of God, nor once considered hym to be in the church, for the tyme, the Priest, and for the time the Iudge in CHRISTES steede (as in the decree of Nicene Coūcell was appointed) not meaning the B. of Rome only, but euery Patriarke in his precinct: who had euery one of them a Colledge or cathedrall church of learned Priestes, in hearing of whom by a conuocation of all hys fellow bishops, with the consent of þ^e people, all heresies were determined by the word of God: and this is the meaning of S. Cyprian.

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Sauer. You take it so, but it seemeth to me otherwyse.

Phil. Vpon what ground it should seeme otherwyse vnto you, I knowe not: but thys meanyng which I haue declared, the generall Coūcels. vij. or viij. one after an other, confirmed it so to be, which did not allow one supreme head onely.

Pend. There were not so many generall Coūcels, but foure onely allowed.  

Phil. That is not so M. Pendleton, although there be foure specially allowed for the confirmation of the Trinity: but beside these foure there were many other general Coūcels, as you may learne by many writers.

A chaplain. Did not CHRIST build his church vpon Peter? S. Cyprian sayth so.

Phil. MarginaliaHow Sainct Ciprian meaneth, Christ to build his church vpon Peter?S. Cyprian De simplicitate prælatorū declareth in what respect he so sayd. In persona vnius dedit dominus omnibus claues, vt omniū vnitatē denūciaret.  

MarginaliaCipria. De simplicitate Prælatorum. i. God gaue in person of one man the keyes to al, that he might signifie the vnitie of all men. And also S. Austen sayth in the. x. treatise of S. Iohn: MarginaliaAugust. tract. 10. in Ioan.Si in Petro non esset ecclesiæ mysterium, non ei diceret dominus: tibi dabo claues. Si autem hoc Petro dictum est, non habet ecclesia: si autem ecclesia habet, quando claues accepit, ecclesiam totam designauit. i.  

Latin/Greek Translations     Close

St. Augustine, x treatise of St. John

Foxe text Latin

Si in Petro non esset ecclesiae mysterium, non ei diceret dominus: tibi dabo claues. Si autem hoc Petro dictum est, non habet ecclesia: si autem ecclesia habet, quando claues accepit, ecclesiam totam designauit.

Foxe text translation

If in Peter had not bene the mysterie of the Church, the Lorde had not sayd vnto him: I wyll geue vnto thee the keyes. For if that were sayd vnto Peter, the Church hath them not: If the Church haue them, when Peter receiued them he signified the whole Church.

Actual text of St. Augustine, In Joannis evangelium tractatus CXXIV, Migne, P.L. vol. 135, col. 1762

Nam si in Petro non esset Ecclesiae sacramentum, non ei diceret Dominus, Tibi dabo claves regni coelorum: [quaecumque solveris in terra, soluta erunt et in coelo; et quaecumque ligaveris in terra, ligata erunt et in coelo.] Si hoc Petro tantum dictum est, non facit hoc Ecclesia.

[Philpot seems to mean this passage of St. Augustine, but he is paraphrasing (from memory?)]

If in Peter had not bene the mysterie of the Church, the Lorde had not sayd vnto him: I wyll geue vnto thee the keyes. For if that were sayd vnto Peter, the Church hath them not: if the Church haue them, whē Peter receiued them he signified the whole Church. As also S. Hierom a Priest of Rome writyng to Nepotian, sayth: MarginaliaHieronym. ad Nepotianum.that all Churches doe leane to their own Pastors, where he speaketh of the Ecclesiasticall Hierarchie or regiment, where hee maketh no mention of the bishop of Rome. And Ad Euagium he sayth, MarginaliaHieronym. ad Euagium.that where soeuer a bishop be, whether it be at Rome, or at Euagie, or at Regium, he is of one power and of one iurisdiction.

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Sauer. S. Hierome De cœlesti hierarchia? It was Dyonisius you meane.  

Phil. I say not that Hierom wrote any booke so entituled. But I say that in the Epistle by me alledged, he maketh mention of the ecclesiasticall regiment.

Sauer. I wonder you will stand so stedfast in your errour, to your own destruction.

Phil. I am sure we are in no errour, by the promyse of CHRIST made to the faythfull once, which is, that hee wyll geue to hys true church such a spirite of wysedome, that the aduersaries therof should neuer be able to resist. And by this I know wee are of the truth, for that neither by reasoning neither by writing, your Sinagoge of Rome is able to aunswere. Where is there one of you al that euer hath ben able to answere any of þ^e godly learned Ministers of Germany, who haue disclosed your counterfait religion? Which of you all (at this day) is able to aunswere Caluins Institutions,  

which is Minister of Geneua?

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Sauer. A godly Minister in deede, of receit of cutpursses and runagate  

traytours. MarginaliaFalse sclaūder.And of late I can tel you, there is such contention fallē betwene hym and his own sects, that he was faine to fly the towne, about predestination. I tell you the truth, for I came by Geneua hither.

Phil. I am sure you blaspheme that godly man, and that godly church where he is Minister, as it is your churches condition when you cannot aunswer men by learning, to oppresse them with blasphemies and false reportes. For in the matter of Predēstination he is in none other opinion then all the Doctors of the Church be, agreing to the scriptures.

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