Marginalia1558. Iune.ry, your images &c.

As for the vnitie which is in your Church, what is it els but treason, murther, poisonyng one an other, Idolatry, superstition, wickednes? What vnitie was in your Church, when there was three Popes at once? Where was your head of vnitie when you had a woman Pope? Here he was interrupted and could not be suffered to procede, but sayth the Byshop: Roger these thy wordes are very blasphemy, and by the meanes of thy frendes thou hast ben suffered to speake, and art ouer malepert to teach any here: Therfore keeper take hym away.

MarginaliaThe 2. examinatiō of Roger Holland.THe day that Henry Pond & the rest were brought forth to be agayne examined, D. Chedsey sayd: Roger, I trust you haue now better considered of the Church then you did before.

Holland. I consider this much: That out of the Church there is no saluation, as diuers auncient Doctours say.

Boner. That is well sayd. M. Egleston I trust your kynsman will be a good Catholicke man. But Roger, you meane, I trust, the Church of Rome.

Holland. I meane that Church which hath Christ for her head: which also hath his word, and his Sacramantes accordyng to his word and institution.

Chedsey. Then Chedsey interrupted hym, and sayd: is that a Testament you haue in your hand?

Holland. Yea M. Doctour, it is the new Testament. You will find no fault with the translation (I thinke). It is of your owne translation: it is accordyng to the great Bible.

Boner. How say you? how do you know it is the Testament of Christ, but onely by the Church? For the Church of Rome hath and doth preserue it, and out of the same hath made decrees, ordinaunces, and true expositions.

No (sayth Roger) the Church of Rome hath and doth suppresse the readyng of the Testamēt. And what a true exposition (I pray you) did the Pope make therof when he set his foote in the Emperours necke and sayd: MarginaliaPsal. xcj.Thou shalt walke vppon the Lyon and the Aspe: the yong Lyon and the Dragon shalt thou treade vnto thy foote.  

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The reference is to Pope Alexander III's putative humiliation of the Holy Roman Emperor Frederick Barbarossa. Later, this incident would be widely known to English people through the writings of Foxe and Jewel. How Holland knew of it is less clear; although his ultimate source was probably Robert Barnes's edition of Platina's papal biographies. Whether Holland read this for himself or was repeating what someone told him must remain unknown.

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Then sayd the Byshop: Such vnlearned wilde heades as thou and other, would be expositours of the Scripture. Would you then the auncient learned (as there be some here awel as I) should be taught of you?

Holl. Youth delighteth in vanitie. My wildnes hath bene somewhat the more by your doctrine, then euer I learned out of this booke of God. But my Lord, I suppose, some of the old Doctours say: If a poore lay man bryng his reason & argument out of the word of God, he is to be credited afore the learned, though they be neuer so great Doctours. For the gift of knowledge was taken from the learned Doctours, and giuen to poore fishermen. Notwithstandyng I am ready to be instructed by the Church.

Boner. That is very well sayd Roger. But you must vnderstād that the Church of Rome is the Catholicke Church. Roger, for thy frendes sake (I promise thee) I wish thee well, and I meane to do thee good. Keeper, see he want nothyng. Roger, if thou lacke any money to pleasure thee, I will see thou shalt not want.  

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Bonner is offering Holland money to buy necessities - bedding, better food, freedom from chains, etc. - in prison.

MarginaliaThe last examination of Roger Holland.THe last examination of Roger Holland was when he with his fellow prisoners were brought into the Consistory and there excommunicated all sauyng Roger, and ready to haue their sentence of iudgement giuen, with many threatning wordes to feare them with all: the Lord Straunge, Syr Tho. Iarret, M. Egleston

Esquier, & diuers other of worshyp both of Cheshyre & Lākeshyre, that were Rog. Hollāds kinsmē & frendes, beyng there present: which had ben earnest suters to the Byshop in his fauour, hopyng of his safetie of lyfe. Now the Byshop hopyng yet to wynne hym with his fayre and flatteryng wordes, began after this maner.

Boner. Roger I haue diuers tymes called thee before, home to my house, and haue conferred with thee, and beyng not learned in the Latine toung, it doth appeare vnto me thou art of a good memory and of a very sēsible talke, but something ouerhasty: which is a naturall disease to some men. And surely they are not the worst natured men. For I my selfe shall now and then be hasty, but myne anger is soone past. So Roger, surely I haue a good opinion of you, that you will not with these leude fellowes cast your selfe headlong from the church of your parentes & your frendes that are here, very good Catholickes (as it is reported vnto me). And as I meane thee good, so Roger play the wisemās part, and come home with the lost soone & say: I haue runne into the Church of schismatikes and heretickes, from the Catholicke Church of Rome, MarginaliaThe Rhetoricall perswasions of Bish. Boner.and you shall, I warrant you, not onely finde fauour at Gods handes, but the Church that hath authoritie, shall absolue you and put new garmentes vppon you, and kill the fatlyng to make thee good chere withall: That is, in so doyng, as meate doth refresh and cherish the minde, so shalt thou finde as much quietnes of consciēce in commyng home to the Church, as did the hungry sonne that had bene fed afore with the hogges, as you haue done with these heretickes that seuer them selues from the Church. I giue them a homely name, but they be worse (puttyng his hand to his cap for reuerence sake) then hogges: For they know the Church and will not follow it. If I should say this much to a Turke, he would (I thinke) beleue me. But Roger, if I did not beare thee and thy frendes good will, I would not haue sayd so much as I haue done, but I would haue let myne Ordinary alone with you.

At these wordes his frendes that were there, gaue the Byshop thankes for his good will and paynes that he had taken in hys and their behalfe.

Boner. Well Roger, how say you now? Do you not beleue that after the Priest hath spoken the wordes of consecration, there remayneth the body of Christ really and corporally vnder the formes of bread and wyne: MarginaliaThe Papistes how they take one peece of Scripture, and leaue out an other.I meane the selfe same body that was borne of the virgine Mary, that was crucified vpon the crosse, that rose agayne the third day?

Holland. Your Lordshyp sayth, the same body which was borne of the virgine Mary, which was crucified vpon the Crosse, which rose agayne the thyrd day: but you leaue out, which ascended into heauen: and the Scripture sayth he shall there remayne vntill he come to iudge the quicke and the dead. Then he is not conteined vnder the formes of bread and wyne by Hoc est corpus meum. &c.

Boner. Roger, I perceiue my paynes and good will, will not preuaile: and if I should argue with thee, þ^u art so wilfull (as all they fellowes be, standyng in thine own singularitie and foolish conceite) that thou wouldest still talke to no purpose this vij. yeare, if thou mightest be suffered. Aūswere whether thou wilt confesse the reall and corporall presence of Christes body in the Sacrament, or wilt not.

Holland. My Lord, although that God by hys sufferaunce hath here placed you to set forth his truth and glory in vs his faithfull seruauntes: notwithstandyng your meanyng is farre from the zeale of Christ, and for all your woordes, you haue the same zeale that Annas and Caiphas had, trusting to their authoritie, traditiōs and ceremonies, more then to the word of God.

Boner. If I should suffer hym, he would fall frō reasonyng to rayling, as a franticke hereticke.

Lord Straunge. Roger (sayth the Lord Straunge) I