MarginaliaThe minor examined. had ther durance from tyme of the Apostles, yet the definition and matter which maketh a true Aposticall churche in dede and vniuoce neyther is nowe in the churche of Rome, nor yet the forme and institution of the church nowe vsed in Rome was euer from the Apostles, which Apostles were neuer authors or fathers of this title, iurisdiction, and doctrine now taught in Rome, but rather were enemies euer to the same.

MarginaliaThe Maior examined.Again to the Maior which standeth vpon ij. partes, I aunswere, first although the necessitie of the churche duryng from the Apostles, may & must be graūted, yet the same necessitie was not boūd to any certaine place, or person, but only to faith, so that whersoeuer, that is, in whatsoeuer congregation true faith was, ther was the churche of Christ. And because the trewe fayth of Christ must nedes euer remaine in earth, therfore the churche also muste nedes remaine in earth. And God forbyd that the said trewe faith of Christ should onelye remaine in one Citie in the world, and not in other as well. And therfore to the second part of the Maior is to be said, that as this trew and sincer faith of Christ is not so geuen, to remaine fixely in one place or Citie alone: so neyther is ther any one church in the world so ordained and appointed of God, that all other churches should haue their recourse vnto it, for determination of their causes and cōtrouersies incident, &c. And thus much to the argument of Pighius and Hosius &c.

Now as touching the authorities and allegations of the auncient doctours, and holy fathers in the commendatiō of the church of Rome, here commeth in also to be noted, that whosoeuer wyll vnderstand rightly their authorities and aunswere to the same, must firste learne to make a difference and distinction of the said church of Rome, from that it was, to that it is, for as muche as the churche of Rome is not the same churche now, which it was thē, but only equiuoce: MarginaliaA distinction. The church of Rome distincted into a dooble consideration of times.otherwise as touching the very property & definitiō of a church, is an other church, & nothing agreyng to that was then, saue onely in outward name & place, therfore by this distinctiō made, I answere the place of Irenæus, Cyprianus, & other famous doctours, cōmending the church of Rome as catholique and Apostolicall, MarginaliaThe church of Rome how it was commended of the old Doctors.and saye that these doctors speakynge of the churche of Rome whiche then was, said not vntrew, calling it catholique and Apostolical, for that the same church toke their ordinary successiō of byshops, ioyned with the ordinary doctrine and institution frō the Apostles: but speakyng of the church of Rome, which now is, we say the said places of the doctors, are not trewe, neyther do appertaine to the same. al which Doctors nether knew the church of Rome that nowe is, neyther if they had, woulde euer haue iudged any thyng therin worthie such commendation. MarginaliaThe principall obiection of the papists, agaynst the protestāts.Ouer & besydes, oure aduersaries yet more obiect againste vs, who heauing and shouing for the antiquitie of the Romish church for lacke of other sufficiēt reason to proue, are dryuen to fall in skannyng the tymes and yeares. what, say they, wher was this church of yours, before these. l. yeares? MarginaliaAnswere to the obiectionTo whom briefly to aunswere, firste we demaund what they mean by this, whiche they call our church? Yf they meane the ordinaunce and institution of doctrine and sacraments, now receaued, and differing from the church of Rome, we affirme and saye, that this church was, when this churche of theirs was not yet hatched out of the shell, nor dyd yet euer see any light: that is, in the tyme of the Apostles, in the primitiue age, in the tyme of Gregory the first, and the olde Romaine church, when as yet no vniuersall Pope was receyued publikely, but repelled in Rome, nor this fulnes of plenarie power yet knowen, nor this doctrine, & abuse of Sacraments yet hard of. In witnes wherof we haue the old actes and histories of auncient tyme to geue testimonie with vs, wherin sufficient matter wehaue for vs, to declare the same forme, vsage, and institution of this our churche reformed now, not to be the begynninge of any newe church of our owne, but to be the renewing of the olde auncient church of Christ: nor to be any sweruing frō the church of Rome, but rather a redusyng to the church of Rome. Marginaliathe church of Rome reuolted from the church of Rome.whereas contrary the churche of Rome whiche nowe is, is nothyng but a sweruyng from the church of Rome, as partly is declared, and more shal appeare (Christ willyng) hereafter.

MarginaliaAn other obiection of the papists.And where the sayd our aduersaries do moreouer charge vs with the faith of our fathers and godfathers, wherin we were baptised, accusing and condemnynge vs, for that we are nowe reuolted from them and their fayth, wherin we were firste Christened: MarginaliaAnswer to obiection.To this we aunswere, that we being first baptised by our fathers & godfathers, in water, in the name of the Father, of the Sonne, & of the holy Gost, the same fayth wherin we were christened then, we do retaine, and because our godfathers were themselues also in the same fayth, therfore they can not say that we haue forsakē the faith of our Godfathers, &c. As for other pointes of fayth and doctrine considered, besides the principall substance of our baptisme, if they held any thyng which receaded frō the fayth and rule of Christ, therin we now remoue our selues from them, because we woulde not with thē remoue frō the rule of Christes doctrine. MarginaliaNo man bound to folow the opinions of his Godfathers in all points vnlesse they be cōsonāt in al thigsNeyther doth the sacramēte of our baptisme bynde vs in al pointes to the faith of thē that baptised vs, but of him, in whose name we were baptised. For as if a man were christened of an heretique, the baptisme of him notwithstāding were good, although the baptiser were nought: so if our godfathers or fathers, which christened vs, were taught any thing, not consonant to christian doctrine in al points, nether is our baptisme worsse for that, nor yet we bound to folowe them in all things, wherin they themselues did not folow the true church of Christ.

Wherfore as it is false, that we haue renounced the faith of our godfathers wherin we were first baptised, so is it false, that we are remoued from the churche of Rome. But rather say, and (by the leaue of Christ) will proue that the churche of Rome hath vtterlye departed from the churche of Rome, according to my distinction afore touched. Whiche thing the more euidently to declare, I wil here compare the church of Rome, with the church of Rome: Marginaliathe church of Rome distincted from the church of Rome.And in a general description set forth (by Gods grace) the differēce of both the churches, that is, of both the tymes of the church of Rome: to thentent it may be seen, whether we or the church of Rome haue more Apostatate from the church of Rome.

Marginaliatwo tymes of the churche of rome considered and examinedAnd here first I diuide the churche of Rome in a double consideration of time, first of those first. 600. yeares whiche were immediatlye after Christ: and secondly of the other. 600. yeares, whiche now haue been in these our latter dayes. And so in comparynge these two together, will searche out what discrepance is betwen them both. Of the which two ages and states of the Romaine church, the first I cal the primitiue church of Rome The other I cal þ^e latter church of Rome, coūtyng this latter church from the thousand yeares after Christ expired, from whiche time Satan hath been let louse accordyng to the prophesy of the. xx. chapter of S. Iohns Reuelation. And thus haue ye the churche of Rome parted into two churches, in double respect and consideration of two sondry states and times. Now in setting & matchinge the one state with the other, let vs see whether the church of Rome hath swarued from the church of Rome more then we, or no.

MarginaliaThe first poynt.And to begin first with the other and qualities of life: I aske here of this Romaine clergie, where was this church of theirs which nowe is, in the old auncient time of þ^e primitiue church of Rome, with this pompe & pride, w^t this riches & superfluitie, with this gloria mundi