purpose and talke propounded. But as concerning the wordes of the Lord Peter, which engendred & brought darknes and obscuritie, and myght geue occasion to other temporall lordes, to breake and infringe the rytes and customes of the churche. Wherefore his aunswere seemed not ful and plaine to þe Prelates, Speaking more ouer to the sayd Peter, he alluded to the wordes of the Virgine speakyng in þe Scripture thus to her sonne: Sōne why did you so to vs? And so prosecuted the same, both maruelyng with him selfe, and yet couertlye complayning of his answer. Afterward answering to these thinges which the lord Peter affirmed, and fyrst to the chapter Ad Verum he said, that it was before answered: touching the deuision of the ij. iurisdictiōs, that thei may be in one subiect as before is proued. Neither doth it let which þe Lord Peter sayd, these ij iurisd. coulde not be in one subiect, because þe thinges which be in thēselues diuers, & be vnder one Gen9, as a man & an asse cannot be in one subiect: But if they were vnder diuers kindes, as whitenes and swetenes in milke, they might be well in one subiecte. It was answered that this rule was not true: because iustice and temperaunce are two diuers vertues, and vnder one kynde, and yet bee in one subiect. Besides these differing species, a man and an Asse be not compatible in one subiect. Also to that which was spoken cōcerning the shauing of the crowne, it was answered that the crowne dyd betoken rule and excellency: and the shauing did signifie, that they ought not to heape vp store of tēporall things, so to apply their harts therunto. But that the temporal things ought to be subiect to them, & not their to the temporalty, as is proued in the said chapter duo sūt genera. Also as concerning that thing, whiche was talked of de regula: he aunswereth, that that maketh for the church, as before was proued. Yea also, the custome doth make the rule for the church. Also lawes in all kinde of sence dothe alwaies excepte the custome. And therfore, his saying makes nothing against it. And now to that place which the Lorde Peter spake about the decretal Nouit. That the case was onely in the kinges person, yet for all that it is expresly sayd in the same text of euery Christen man. And although their law doth speake onelye of the Pope, yet the same is applyed to all bishops in their dioces. MarginaliaThe bish. fyndeth faute with the kings aunswer.Wherefore the sayde bishoppe concluded and beseched the king that it would please his grace to geue vnto them a more playner and comfortable answer: and that they myght not depart from his presence all pensiue and sad, wherby occasion might be geuen to the leyty to impugne the rites and liberties of the church. And þt they doubted nothing hereof in the good nature and conscience of their Soueraigne Lord & kyng: In thend it was answered to thē in the behalfe of the kyng, that hys mynde and intent was not to impugne the customes of the church.
[Back to Top]The sonday following, the bishops assembled them selues agayne before the king at Vicenas, where the L. bishop of Eduen repealed their last supposition, with the laste aunswere made vnto them in the behalfe by the king, when the bishop of Byturien, had geuen them to vnderstand how the king willed them not to feare. MarginaliaThe gentle answer of the king to the bishopsFor that they should suffer no hindraunce or damage in hys tyme, ye and woulde defend them to their ryghtes & customes because it should not be sayd þt he woulde geue ensample to other to impugne þe church, assuring them the euen the kynges grace hym willed so to declare vnto them. The sayd lord B. of Senon in the name of þe whole prelates gaue humble thākes to þe king therfore & the sayd B. of Senon beseched þt such proclaimations whiche were made to the priuiledge of the ecclesiasticall iurisdiction might be repealed, & called in. Hereunto the kyng hym selfe aunswered wt his owne mouth that they were not published at his commaundement neither dyd he know of them, nor ratifie them. Thirdly, the byshopproposed that those abuses whiche the temporaltie complained of, should be so ordered and reformed: that euery mā should be wel contented therwith. Last of all, he beseched the kyngs highnes, that he would of his gracious goodnes giue them a more cōfortable & fuller aunswere. Then aunswered þe Lord Peter in the name of the king: MarginaliaThe finall aunswer of the king to the prelats.That if the prelates and byshops would see reformation of those things which were to be amēded (where aboutes he would take respect betwen this & Christmas next folowyng) his grace would innouate nothyng in þe meane season. And if in the foresayd space they would not correct & reforme that whiche was amisse, his maiestie would appoynte suche order and remedy that should be acceptable both to God and his subiectes. After this, the prelates had leaue of the kyng to depart and went home.
[Back to Top]MarginaliaNotes vpō the bishops aunswer.
Pag 447. col. 2. lin. 6.THe aunswere, of byshop Eduen in the name of the other prelates, to the oration and articles before obiected by the Lord Peter consisteth in two partes. First in declaryng the feare due to God. Secondly the honor due to the kyng. MarginaliaFeare of God consisting in 3. thinges.
1. in geuyng.
2. in honouring
3. in restoryng.Wherof the first is, the feare of God he sayth cōsisteth in iij. thinges. 1. In geuing to God. 2. In honoryng his ministers. 3. In restoring that, which hath been takē awaye. &c. The Second, which is, the honoryng of the kyng, he sayth consisteth in a double sort, that is. MarginaliaHonour to the kyng, trouble. In worde flattering, in deede effectuall.In wordes onely wherin is flattery: And in dede: which agayn his diuideth in iiij. members MarginaliaHonour effects all standeth in 4. pointes.
1. in maintainyng the kings loue.
2. in maintainyng his dignitie.
3. in maintaynyng his good name.
4. in maintaynyng his conscience.first, when a man counsaileth a kyng to that, where by his dominion is loued. 2 Whē the kyng is coūsailed to that wherby his honour o& excellency is not diminished. 3. Thirdly, when the kyng is counsailed to that, whereby his fame and renowen is mayntained. 4. Fourth, when a kyng is counsailed to that, wherby his cōscience is not wounded. &c. And this is the order of hys whole tractation. Nowe remayneth with lyke breuity to recite the reasons and argumentes inorder, wherby he proueth the premisses, with the subdiuision of euery member and part therof. Wherin the studious reader, may note both the subtile procedynges of these Popishe prelates, and also the feable and impotent ground wherupō they build. Whose building (as by this discourse and many other may appeare) wholy and finally tendeth to this, to maintayne their liberties, pompe, and estimation aboue all other secular princes & persōs.
MarginaliaPag. 447. col. 2. lin. 43.First as concernyng feare to be geuen to God, whiche he diuideth in 3. partes, in geuing, in honouring, and restoring: for þe first, he proueth that princes ought to geue largelye and without measure to the church by these argumentes.
MarginaliaPag. 447. col. 2 lin 46.By the testimonie of Iustinian: Although nothing is good whiche is to much yet. &c. pag. 447. col. 2. lin. 46. I aunswere that in the time of Iustinian goodes thē geuen to the churche. were the goodes of the poore. Wherin was vsed faythful distribution, voluntarie geuing, and necessarye charitie. But nowe in our popishe churches, reuenewes and landes geuen, neither are distributed to the poore: and yet are men compelled agaynst their will to geue still. And agayn, so litle necessitie is now geue to such, that the most wealthes of realmes almost is in their handes and houses: in so much that they flowyng in such welth are now waxed so proud, that kings can scarse beare any rule for thē, as was proued before pag. 409. col 2. lin. 18. that th epopes reuenewes here in Englād moūted to more thē 3. times double þe stint of the kings crown Wherfore by the counsail of iustinian, it was so thē, and then myght stand, MarginaliaReligio peperit diuitias nunc filia deuorauit matrēquod Religio peperit diuicias: but now as that tyme is altered, so that counsaile holdeth not, postquā nūc filia deuorauit matrem. That is, after that the daughter hath deuoured the mother. Finally concernyng mēs geuyng to the Churche in these our Popishe dayes, foure faultes I note.
[Back to Top]Marginalia4. incommodities that come in geuyng to the church.First, that they geue superfluously more then sufficient is to necessitie of lyfe.
Secondly, that they geue to such as abuse it wickedly.
Thirdly, that in geuyng to them that nede not, noble men in meane tyme, defraude their poore neyghbours, whiche nede in dede, and yet do not complayne.
Fourthly, because of this title of geuing, mē haue vsed and yet do vse to put great hope of saluation therin, contrary to the Testament of God in Christes death, wherof examples are before pag. 148. col. 1. lin. 48.