Critical Apparatus for this Page
None
Names and Places on this Page
Unavailable for this Edition
662 [662]

K. Henry. 4. Examination of maister W. Thorpe.

where this sentence of cursing is authorised nowe in the Bible. And therfore sir, I pray you that ye will aske the most connyng clerke of this towne, that ye may know where this sentence cursing them that tithe not, is now writtē in Gods law: for if it were written there, I would right gladly be learned where. But shortly this mā wold not go from me, to aske this question of an other body: But required me there, as I would aūswer before God, if in this case, that cursing of priestes were lawfull and approued of GOD? And shortly herewith came to my minde, the learning of S. Peter, teachyng priests specially to halowe the Lord Christ in their harts: beyng euermore ready (as farre as in them is) to aunswere thorow fayth and hope to them that aske of them a reason. And this lesson Peter teacheth men to vse with a meeke spirit and with dread of the Lord. MarginaliaA differēce to be put betwixt the old law and the newWherefore Syr, I sayd to this man in this wise. In the old lawe, whiche ended not fully, till the time that Christ rose vp agayne from death to lyfe: God commaunded tithes to be geuen to the Leuites, for the great busines and dayly trauell that pertained to their office. But priests, because their trauell was mekill more easy and light, then was the office of the Leuites: MarginaliaPriests had the x. parte of the tithes geuen to the Leuites.God ordayned that priestes should take for theyr lyfelode to do their office, the x. part of those tithes, that were geuen to the Leuites. But now (I sayd) in the new law, nother Christ nor any of his Apostles tooke tithes of the people, nor commaunded the people to pay tithes, nother to priestes nor to deacōs. MarginaliaChrist commaundeth almes, not tythes, except tithes be almes.But Christ taught the people to do almes, that is workes of mercy, to poore nedy men (of surplus, that is superfluous of their temporall goodes) whiche they had, more then them neded reasonably to their necessary liuelode. And thus (I sayd) not of tithes, but of pure almes of the people, Christ liued and his Apostles: when they were so busy in preachyng of the worde of God to the people, that they myght not trauell otherwise for to get their liuelode. But after Christes ascension, and when the Apostles had receyued the holy Ghost: they traueled with their handes, for to get theyr liuelode, when þt they might thus do for busy preachyng. Therfore, by example of him selfe, S. Paul teacheth all the priestes of Christ for to trauel with their hand, when for busy teachyng of the people they might thus do. And thus, all these Priestes whose priesthoode God accepteth now, or wil accept, or did in the Apostles tyme, and after their desease: will do to the worldes end. MarginaliaTithes by whom and when they were first commaunded in the new law.But (as Cisterciensis telleth) in the thousand yeare of our Lord Iesu Christ, 211. yeare, one pope the x. Gregory: ordayned new tithes first to be geuen to priestes nowe in the new law. But Saint Paul in his tyme, whose trace or example all priestes of God enforce them to followe, seyng the couetousnes that was among the people, desiring to destroye this foule sinne thorowe the grace of God, and true vertuous lyuing and example of him self: wrote and taught all priests for to folow him as he folowed Christ, paciētly, willingly, and gladly, in hygh pouerty. Wherfore, Paul sayth thus. MarginaliaPaule hauing power to take yet vsed it not.The Lord hath ordained, that they that preach the Gospell, shall lyue of þe Gospell. But we (saith Paul) that couet and busy vs to be faythfull folowers of Christ, vse not this power. MarginaliaPaule wold not be chargeous.For lo (as Paul witnesseth afterward) when he was full poore and nedy, preachyng among the people: he was not chargeous vnto them, but wt his hands he traueled not only to get his own lyuing, but also the lyuing of other poore & nedy creatures. MarginaliaIf priestes were couetous than, what be they now?And since þe people was neuer so couetous, nor so auarous (I ges) as they are now: It wer good coūsel, þt al priests toke hede to this heauēly lerning of Paul, folowing him here in wilful pouerty, nothyng chargyng the people for their bodely liuelode. MarginaliaThis rule, with the rule of begginge Friers, can not stand together.But because þt many priestes do cōtrary to Paul in this foresayd doctrine: Paul byddeth þe people take hede to those priestes that folow hym, as he had geuen them example. As if Paul would say thus to the people: Accept ye none other priests then they, that liue afterthe forme that I haue taught you. For certein, in whatsoeuer dignitie or order that any prieste is in, if he conforme him not to folowe Christ and his Apostles in wilfull pouerty, and in other heauenly vertues, and specially in true preaching of Gods woorde: though such a one be named a priest, yet he is no more but a priest in name, for the worke of a very priest, in such a one wāteth. This sentence approueth Augustine, Gregorye, Chrisostome, and Lincolne playnly.

[Back to Top]

And the Archbishop sayd to me. Thinkest thou thys holsome learning for to sow openly, or yet priuely amōg the people? MarginaliaHolesome inough my lord if your tast wer good to sauor it.Certein, this doctrine contrarieth plainly the ordinaunce of holy fathers whiche haue ordained, graūted and lycenced, priestes to be in diuers degrees, MarginaliaBut it contrarieth not the ordinance, neither of God nor of his worde.and to lyue by tithes and offringes of the people, and by other duetyes.

[Back to Top]

MarginaliaIf priests wold not slacke in their duety, they should not lacke, in hauing sufficient.And I sayd. Syr, if priestes were now in mesurable mesure, and number, and lyued vertuously, and taught busily and truly the worde of God, by example of Christ and of his Apostles, without tithes, offeringes, and other duties that priestes nowe chalenge and take: the people would geue them freely, sufficient liuelode.

[Back to Top]

And a clerke sayd to me. MarginaliaGallax argumentum secundum, non causam vt causā.Howe wilt thou make thys good, that the people will geue freely to priests their liuelode: since that now by the law, euery priest can scarsly cōstraine the people to geue them their lyuelode.

And I sayd. MarginaliaThe euil demaner of the priests, is the cause why the people be so slacke in their tythes.Sir it is now no wonder though the people grudge to gyue priests þe liuelode that they aske: Mekil people know now, how that priestes shuld liue, and howe that they lyue contrarye to Christe and to hys Apostles. And therfore, the people is full heuy to paye (as they doo) their temporall goodes to personnes and to other vicars and priestes, whiche should be faithfull dispensatours of the parishes goodes: taking to them selues no more, but ascarse liuing of tithes, nor of offrings, by the ordinaunce of the common law. MarginaliaPriests being content with suffiency, and a bare liuing, ought to part the residue to the poore.For whatsoeuer priestes take of the people (be it tithe or offering, or any other duety or seruice) the priestes ought not to haue therof no more, but a bare liuing: and to depart the residue to the poore mē & women specially of the parish, of whome they take this temporall liuyng. MarginaliaPirestes did so than, but our priestes do not so nowe.But the most dele of priestes now, wasteth their parishes goods, and spendeth them at their own will after the world, in their vain lustes: So that in fewe places, poore mē haue duely (as they should haue) their owne sustenaunte, nother of tithes nor of offeringes, nor of other large wages and foundations that priestes take of the people in diuerse maners, aboue that they nede for nedefull sustenance of meate and clothing. But the poore nedie people are forsaken, and left of priests to be susteined of the parishins, as if the priestes tooke nothing of the parishenis for to help the people wt. And thus sir, into ouer great charges of the paroshenis they pay their temporal goods twyse, where ones might suffice, if priestes were true dispensatours. MarginaliaWhether tithes are to be payd to priestes doynge not their duety?Also sir, the parishners that paye their temporall goods (be they tythes or offerings) to priestes that do not their office amonge them iustlye, are partners of euery sinne of those priestes: because that they sustaine those priests folly in their sinne, with their temporall goodes. If these things be wel considered, what wonder is it thā sir, if the paryshners grudge agaynst these dispensators?

[Back to Top]

Thā the Archbishop sayd to me. Thou that shouldest be iudged and reuled by holye church, presumptuouslye thou demest holy church to haue erred in the ordinaunce of tythes and other dueties to be payd to priests. It shall be long or thou thriue Losell, that þu despisest thy ghostly mother. MarginaliaGostly mother? nay, an vngostly stepdam, to all Gods children.How darest thou speake this (Losell) among the people? Are not tythes geuē to priestes for to liue by?

[Back to Top]

And I sayd. Sir S. Paule sayth, that tithes were geuen in the olde law to Leuites and to priests, that came of the linage of Leui. MarginaliaBy the law non could chalenge tithes, but onelye the sede of Leuy.But our priests, he saith, came not of the linage of Leuie, but of þe linage of Iuda: to which

Iuda
Kk.iij.