Marginalia1552. of place to adioyne to the former discourses of Peter Martyr, and of Doctour Ridley aboue mentioned, an other certaine learned treatise in forme of a Dialogue as apperteinyng to the same Argument, compiled (as it semeth) out of the tractations of Peter Martyr and other authours, by a certaine learned & reuerend person of this Realme  

:MarginaliaA learned Dealogue betwen Custume and Truth. who vnder the persons of Custome and Veritie, manifestly layeth before our eyes, and teacheth all men not to measure Religion by custome, but to try custome by truth and the worde of God, for els custome may soone deceaue, but the word of God abydeth for euer.

[Back to Top]

MarginaliaA Dialogue betwene Custome and Veritie. CVstome. I maruell much what madnes is cropen into those mens hartes, which now a dayes are not ashamed so violently to tread downe the liuely word of God, yea and impudently to deny God hymselfe.

Veritie. God forbyd there should be any such. In deede I remember that the Romish Byshop was wont to haue the Bible for his foote stoole, & so to treade downe Gods word euermore when he stode at his Masse.  

But thankes be to God he is now detected, and his abominations be opened and blowne throughout all the world. And I heare of no moe that oppresseth Gods word.

[Back to Top]

Cust. No mo say you? Yes doubtles there are an hundreth thousād mo, & your part it is Veritie, to withstand them.

Veri. As touchyng my part, you know it agreeth not with my nature to stand with falsehode. But what are they: disclose them if you will haue them reproued.

Cust. What, are you so great a straunger in these quarters? heare you not how that men do dayly speake agaynst the sacramēt of the aultar, denyng it to be the real body of Christ?  

Veri. In good soth  

, I haue bene a great while abroad, and returned but of late into this countrey   . Wherfore you must pardon me if my aūswere be to seeke in such questions. But go forth in your tale. You haue ben lōger here, and are better acquaynted then I. What say they more then this?

Cust. Then this? why, what can they possible say more?

Veri. Yes there are many thynges worse then this: For this seemeth in some part to be tolerable.

Cust. What? me thinketh you dally  

with me. Seemeth it tolerable to deny the Sacrament?

Veri. They denye it not, so much as I can gather by your wordes.

Cust. Nay then fare you well: I perceyue you will take their part.

Veri. I am not parciall, but indifferent  

to all parties: For I neuer go farther then the truth.

Cust. I can scarsly beleue you. But what is more true thē Christ, which is truth it selfe? or who euer was so hardy, before this time to charge Christ with a lye, for saying these wordes: This is my body?  

MarginaliaMath. 26. The woordes are euident and playne: there is in them not so much as one obscure or darke letter: there is no cause for any man to cauill   . MarginaliaChristes wordes
The Euangelistes.
The old writers:
The Catholicke Church. And yet that notwithstandyng, where as Christ hymselfe affirmed it to be his body, men now a dayes are not abashed to say Christ lyed, it is not his body. The Euangelistes   agree all in one, the old writers   stand of our side, the Vniuersall and Catholicke Churche hath bene in this mynde these xv. hundreth yeare and more. And shall we thincke that Christ hymselfe, his Euangelistes, all the whole Catholicke Churche hath bene so long deceyued, and the truth now at length begotten and borne in these dayes?  

[Back to Top]

Veri. You haue moued a matter of great force and waight, and whereto without many woordes I can make no full aunswere. Notwithstandyng because you prouoke me thereto, if you wil gyue me licence I will take parte with them of whom you haue made false reporte. MarginaliaThe doctrine of the papistes commonly standeth vpon false reportes. for none of them euer reproued Christ of any lye. But contrarywise they say that many men of late dayes, not vnderstandyng Christes wordes, haue buylded and set vp many fond  

lyes vpon his name. Wherfore first I will declare the meanyng of these wordes: This is my body, and next in what sense the Church & the old fathers haue euermore taken them. MarginaliaThe sense of Hoc est [illegible text]  

Commentary     Close

'Hoc est corpus meum': Latin for 'this is my body.'

, expounded. First therfore you shall vnderstand that Scripture is not so to be taken alwayes as the letter soundeth, but as the intent and purpose of the holy Ghost was, by whom the Scripture was vttered.   For if you folow the bare wordes, you will soone shake downe and ouerthrow the greatest parte of the Christian fayth. What is playner then these wordes: Pater maior me est: My father is greater then I am? MarginaliaIohn. 14. Of those playne wordes sprang vp the heresie of the Arrians, which denyed Christ to be equall with his father.   What is more euidēt then this saying: I and my father are both me? MarginaliaIohn 10. Ther of arose the heresie of them that denyed three distinct persons.   They all had one soule and one hart, MarginaliaActes. 4. was spoken by the Apostles. Yet had ech of them a soule and hart peculiar to hymselfe. They are now not two but one flesh, is spoken by the man and his wife. Yet hath both the mā and the wife his seuerall body. Hee is our very flesh, MarginaliaGen. 37. sayd Rubē by Ioseph his brother, whiche notwithstandyng was not their reall flesh. I am bread, sayd Christ: yet was he flesh and no bread. Christ was the stone, Marginalia1. Cor. 10. sayth Paule, and was in dede no materiall stone. Melchisedech had neither father nor mother, & yet in deede he had both. Behold the Lambe of God, sayth Iohn Baptist by Christ: notwithstandyng Christ was a man, & not a L&be.   Circumcision was called the couenaūt, where as it was but a token of the couenaunt. The Lambe named þ^e passeouer, & yet was it eaten in remēbraunce was onely of the passeouer. Iacob raysed vp an aultar, and called it beyng made but of lyme and stone, the mighty God of Israell. Moses when he had conquered the Amalechites, set vp an aultar and called it by the names of God Iehoua   , and Tetragrāmatum.   We all are one loafe of bread, Marginalia1. Cor. 10. sayth Paule yet were they not therby turned into a loafe of bread. Christ hangyng vpon the Crosse appoynted S. Iohn to his mother, saying: Loe there is thy sonne, & yet was he not her sonne. So many as be Baptised into Christ (sayth Paule) haue put on Christ: MarginaliaGal. 3. and so many as are Baptised into Christ, are washed with the bloud of Christ: MarginaliaRom. 6. Notwithstandyng no man tooke the fonte water to be the natural bloud of Christ. the cup is the new Testament, sayth Paule, and yet is not the cup in deede the very new Testamēt. MarginaliaFiguratiue speaches most common in Scripture. You see therfore þ^t it is not straunge nor a thyng vnwont in the Scriptures, to call one thyng by an others name. So that you can no more of necessitie inforce the chaungyng of the bread into Christes body in the Sacrament, because the wordes be playne: This is my body, then the wiues flesh to be the naturall and reall body and flesh of the husband because it is written: They are not two, but one flesh: or the aultar of stone to be very God, because Moses with euident and playne wordes pronounced it to be the mighty God of Israel. Notwithstandyng if you will needes cleaue to the letter, you make for me, & hinder your own cause. For this I wil reason, and vse your owne weapon against you. MarginaliaThe name of bread vsed in scripture. The scripture calleth it bread. The Euangelistes agree in the same. Paule nameth it so v. tymes in one place. The holy Ghost may not be set to schole to learne to speake. Wherfore I conclude by your owne Argument, that we ought not onely to say, but also to beleue that in the Sacrament there remayneth bread.

[Back to Top]

Cust. Me thinketh your aunswere is reasonable: yet can I not be satisfied. Declare you therfore more at large, what moueth you to thinke this of the Sacrament. For I thinke you would not withstād a doctrine so long holden & taught,  

vnlesse you were inforced by some strong and likely reasons.

MarginaliaThe meaning of Christes wordes examined. Veri. First, in examinyng the wordes of Christ, I get me to the meanyng and purpose for whiche they were spoken. And in this behalfe I see that Christ mēt to haue his death and passion kept in remembraunce. For men of themselues bee and euermore were forgetfull of the benefites of God. And therefore it was behouefull that they should be admonished and sturred vp with some visible and outward tokens, as with the Passeouer Lambe, the brasen Serpent, and other lyke. For the brasen Serpent was a token that when the Iewes were stynged and wounded with Serpentes, God restored thē and made them whole. The passeouer Lambe was a memory of the great benefite of God, which when he destroyed the Egyptians, saued the Iewes whose doores were sprinckled with the bloud of a Lambe. So lykewise Christ left vs a memoriall and remembraunce of his death and passion in outward tokens  

, that when the Child should demaunde of his Father what the breakyng of the bread and drinking of the cup meaneth, he might aunswere hym, that lyke as the bread is broken, so Christ was broken and rent vpon the Crosse for to redeeme the soule of man: and lyke as wyne fostereth and comforteth the body, so doth the bloud of Christ cherish and relieue the soule. And this do I gather by the wordes of Christ and by the Institution and order of the Sacrament. For Christ charged the Apostles to do this in the remembraunce of hym. Wherupon thus I do conclude:

[Back to Top]

Fes-	Nothyng is done in remembraunce of it selfe.
ti-	But the Sacrament is vsed in the remembraunce of Christ.
no.	Therefore the Sacrament is not Christ.

Fe-	Christ neuer deuoured hymselfe.
ri-	Christ dyd eate the Sacrament with his Apostles.
son.	Ergo, the Sacrament is not Christ hymselfe.   Commentary     Close Verity employs syllogisms, forms of logical argumentation using three points that often beg more questions than they answer. Catholics would respond to these arguments in a variety of ways; the most simple being 'with God, all things are possible,' along with evidence found in Scripture and Tradition and how the Church has interpreted these modes of divine revelation in regards to the Eucharist since Apostolic times. [Back to Top]

Beside this I see, that Christ ordayned not his body, but a Sacrament of his body. A Sacramēt (as S. Augustine