1576 Edition | Book 11 | Page 1440 
MarginaliaAn 1555. February.the Counsell,MarginaliaM. Rogers agayne called before the Counsell, & cōmaunded to keepe hys house. (for the Bishops thirsted after his bloude). The Counsell quarelled with hym cōcerning his doctrine, and in conclusion commaunded hym as prisoner to keepe hys owne house, and se he did: although by flying he myght easily haue escaped their cruell handes, and many thynges there were, which might haue moued hym therunto. He dyd see the recouery of religion in England for that present, desperate: he knew he coulde not want a liuyng in Germany, and he could not forget his wyfe and ten children, and to seeke meanes to succour them. But all these thynges set a part, after hee was called to aunswere in Christes cause, he would not depart, but stoutely stoode in defence of the same, and for the triall of that truth, was content to hazarde his lyfe.
[Back to Top]Thus he remayned in hys owne house as prisoner a long tyme,
CloseRogers was transferred to Newgate on 27 January 1554.
CloseIn the Rerum, Foxe explains that Rogers's house was near to Bonner'sLondon palace (Rerum, p. 267).
CloseI.e., the Privy Council.
CloseBL, Lansdowne 389, fos. 187v-199r is a complete copy of Roger's examinations (including the answers he has not allowed to give). For a printed copy of this document, together with a detailed, albeit hypercritical, comparison of the manuscript with Foxe's version of it, see Chester, pp. 293-337, cf. Chester's overall assessment of Foxe's editing on pp. 151-54, 158 and 208-10. ECL 261, fos. 20r-44r is a partial copy of this material.
[Back to Top]MarginaliaExamination & aunswere of M. Iohn Rogers.FIrst the Lord Chauncellour sayd vnto me thus. Sir ye haue heard of the state of the Realme in whiche it standeth now.
Rogers. No my Lord, I haue ben kept in close prison, and except there haue bene some generall thyng said at the table when I was at dinner or supper, I haue heard nothing: & there haue I heard nothing whereupon any speciall thyng might be grounded.
L. Chan. Then said the L. Chancellor: Generall thinges, generall things, mockingly? Ye haue heard of my Lord Cardinals commyng, and that the Parliament hath receyued his blessing, not one resisting vnto it, but one man whiche did speake against it. Such an vnity & such a miracle hath not bene sene. And all they of which there are 8. score in one house,
CloseI.e., the House of Commons.
Rog. The Catholike Church I neuer did nor will dissent from.
L. Chan. Nay, but I speake of the state of the Catholicke Church, in that wyse in which we now stand in England, hauyng receiued the Pope to bee supreme hed.
MarginaliaNo head of the Catholicke Church, but Christ.Rog. I know none other hed but Christ, of his catholicke church, neither will I acknowledge the bishop of Rome to haue any more authority, then any other bishop hath, by the word of god, and by the doctrine of the old and pure Catholike church 400. yeres after Christ.
[Back to Top]L. Chaun. Why didst thou then acknowledge king Henry the 8. to be supreme hed of the church, if Christ be the onely hed?
MarginaliaThe supremacie of king Henry. 8. how it is to be taken.Rog. I neuer graunted him to haue any supremacy in spirituall thinges, as are the forgeuenesse of sinnes, geuyng of the holy Ghost, authoritie to be a Iudge aboue the worde of God.
L. Chan. Yea sayd he, and Tonstall Byshop of Duresme, & MarginaliaTonstall B. of Duresme. N. Bish. of Worcester.N. B. of Worcester, if thou hadst said so in his dayes (and they nodded the hed at me, with a laughter) thou hadst not bene a lyue now.
Rog. Which thing I denied, and would haue told how he was sayd and ment to be supreme hed. But they loked and laughed one vpō an other, and made such a busines, that I was constrayned to let it passe. There lyeth also no great waight therupon: MarginaliaThe meaning why K. Henry was titled supreame head.for all the world knoweth what the meanyng was. The Lorde Chauncellour also sayd to the Lord Wil. Haward that there was no inconuenience therein, to haue Christ to be supreme hed, and the B. of Rome also: & when I was ready to haue aunswered, that there could not be two heds of one church, & haue more plainly declared
[Back to Top]the vanity of that his reason, the L. Chancellor sad: what sayst thou? make vs a directed answer, whether thou wilt be one of this catholike church, or not, with vs in the state in which we are now?
Rog. My Lord, without fayle I can not beleue, that ye your selues do thincke in you hartes, þt he is supreme head, in forgeuyng of sinne. &c, (as is before sayd) MarginaliaThe bishops contrary to their former doinges and writinges.seyng you, and all the Byshops of the realme haue now xx. yeares lōg preached, and some of you also wrytten to the contrary,
CloseRogers is referring to Stephen Gardiner's treatise De vera obedentia, which was first published in 1535 (STC 11584). This work argued for royal, rather than papal, supremacy of the English church. Marian Protestants frequently taunted Gardiner with his authorship of this work and, in fact, illicit protestant presses reprinted the work during Mary's reign (STC 11585-7).
[Back to Top]L. Chan. Tush that Parlament was with most great crueltie constrayned to abolishe and put away the primacie from the byshops of Rome.
Rog. With crueltie? Why then I perceyue that you take a wrong way, with crueltie to perswade mens consciences. For it shoulde appeare by your doynges now, that the cruelty then vsed hath not perswaded your consciences. Howe would ye then haue oure consciences, perswaded wyth cruelty.
L. Chan. I talke to thee of no cruelty, but that they were so often & so cruelly called vpon in that Parliament, to let that Act go forward, yea and euen with force driuen thereunto, where as in this Parlament it was so vniformelie receiued, as is aforesayd.
Rog. Here my Lord Paget tolde mee more playnly, what my Lord Chauncellour ment. Vnto whom I aunswered: My Lord, what will ye conclude therby? that the fyrst parlament was of lesse authoritie, because but few cōdescended vnto it? and this last Parlament of great authority, because more condescended vnto it? MarginaliaTruth goeth not by nūber, nor by the greater part.It goeth not (my Lord) by the more or lesser part, but by the wyser, truer, and godlier part, and I would haue sayd more, but the Lord Chaūcellour interrupted me with his question, willing me once agayne to aunswere him. For, (sayd hee) wee haue moe to speake with then thou: which must come in after the. And so there were in deed MarginaliaX. prisoners out of Newgate to be conuented before Gardiner.ten persons moe out of Newgate, besides two that were not called. Of which ten one was a citizen of London, which graunted vnto them: and nine of the countrey: whiche all came to prison agayne, and refused the Cardinals blessing, and the authoritie of his holy fathers church: Marginalia9. of these prisoners refused the popes authoritie: the tenth yelded.sauyng that one of these. ix. was not asked the question otherwyse then thus, whether hee would be an honest man as his Father was before him, and aunswering yea, he was so discharged by the friendship of my Lord William Hawarde (as I haue vnderstanded): He bad me tell him what I would do: whether I woulde enter into one Churche with the whole Realme, as it is now, or not? No, sayd I, I will first see it proued by the Scriptures. Let me haue penne, incke, and bookes. &c. And I shall take vpon me playnly to set out the matter, so that þe cōtrary shal be proued to be true, and then let any man that wil, conferre with me by writyng.
[Back to Top]L. Chaun. Nay, that shall not bee permitted thee. Thou shalt neuer haue so much profered thee as thou hast nowe,MarginaliaSte. Gardiner refusing to haue the truth to be tryed by learning. if thou refuse it, & wilt not now cōdescend and agree to the catholicke churche. Here are. ij. thinges: mercy, and Iustice: if thou refuse the Queenes mercy now, then shalt thou haue iustice ministred vnto thee.
[Back to Top]Rog. I neuer offended, nor was disobedient vnto her grace: and yet I wyll not refuse her mercy, But if this shall be denyed me, to conferre by writing and to try out the truth, then is it not well, but to farre out of the way, MarginaliaThe bishops neither wyll stand by their assertion, nor yet will suffer other men so to doe.Ye your selues (all the Bishops of the realme) brought mee to the knowledge of the pretensed primacy of the byshop of Rome, when I was a yong man, twenty yeares past: and will ye now without collation, haue me to say and do the contrary? I can not be so perswaded.
[Back to Top]L. Chan. If thou wilt not receiue the Byshop of Rome to be supreme head of the catholicke Church, then thou shalt neuer haue her mercy, thou mayest bee sure. And as touching conferring and tryall, MarginaliaA fayre pretense to excuse your ignoraunce.I am forbidden by the scriptures to vse any conferring and tryall wyth the, For Saint Paul teacheth me that I shall shun and eschewe an Hereticke, after one or two monitions, knowing that suche an one is ouerthrowen and is faulty, in as much as he is condēned by hys owne iudgement.
[Back to Top]Rog. My Lord I deny that, I am an hereticke: proue ye that first, and then alledge the foresayd text. But stil the L. Chauncellour played on one stringe, saying.
L. Chan. If thou wilt enter into one Church with vs. &c. tell vs that, or els thou shalt neuer haue so much profered thee agayne, as thou hast now.
Rog. I will finde it first in the Scripture, and see it tryed therby, before I receiue hym to be supreme head.
Wor. Why? do ye not know what is in your Crede: Credo ecclesiam sanctam Catholicam: I beleue the holy Catholike Church?