Marginalia1555. Febr.Rog, I fynd not the Byshop of Rome there. For [catholicke] signifieth not the Romish Church: It signifieth the consent of all true teaching churches of all tymes, & all ages. MarginaliaThe Popes church proued not to be Catholicke.But how should the Byshop of Romes churche bee one of them, which teacheth so many doctrines þ^t are playnely and directly agaynst the worde of God? Can that bishop be the true head of the Catholyke Churche that doth so? that is not possible.

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L. Ch. Shew me one of them, one, one, let me heare one.

Rog. I remembred my selfe, that amonges so many I were best to shewe one, and sayd I will shew you one.

L. Ch. Let me heare that, let me heare that.

Rog. The Bishop of Rome and his Church, say, read, and sing al that they do in their congregatiōs, in Latin,MarginaliaLatin seruice. which is directly and playnely agaynst the first to the Corinth. the xiiij. Chapter.

L. Chan. I deny that, I deny that, that it is against þ^e word of God. Let me see you proue that: how proue ye that?

Rog. Thus I began to say the text from the begynnyng of the chapter: MarginaliaSpeaking in a straunge tounge, agaynst saynt Paule. 1. Cor. 14.Qui loquitur lingua &c. to speake with tongue, sayd I, is to speake with a straūge tong: as latin or Greke &c. and so to speake, is not to speake vnto men, but to God. But ye speake in Latin, whiche is a straung tonge: wherfore ye speake not vnto men, but vnto God (meanyng God onely at the most). This hee graunted, that they speake not vnto men but vnto God.

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L. Chan. Well, then it is in vayne vnto men.

Rog. No not in vaine. For one man speaketh in one tongue, and an other in an other tonge, and all well.

L. Chan. Nay I will proue then that he speaketh neither to God nor to man, but vnto the winde.MarginaliaTo speake to God onely. To speake both to God and man. To speake neither to God nor mā, but to the wynde.

Rog. I was willing to haue declared how and after what sort these two textes do agree (for they must agree: they be both the sayinges of the holy Ghost, spoken by the Apostle Paul) as to witte, to speake, not to men but vnto god and to speake into the wynde: and so to haue gone forward with the proufe of my matter begon, but here arose a noise & a confusion. Then sayd the L. Chauncellour.

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L. Chan. To speake vnto God, and not vnto God were vnpossible.

Rog. I will proue them possible.

L. Haward. No sayd my Lorde William Haward to my Lord Chauncellour: now will I beare you witnes, that he is out of the way. For he graunted first that they which speake in a straunge speach, speake vnto God: and now he sayth the contrary, that they speake neither to God nor to man.

Rog. I haue not graūted or sayd (turnyng me to my Lord Haward) as ye reporte. I haue alleaged the one text & now I am come to the other, They must agree, and I can make thē to agree. But as for you, you vnderstād not the matter.

L. Haward. I vnderstand so much, þ^t that is not possible. This is a poynt of Sophistrie, quoth MarginaliaSecretary Bourne.Secretary Bourne.

L. Chan. Then the Lorde Chauncellor began to tell the L. Haward, that when he was in high Dutchland,  

they at MarginaliaA Citie in Suauen.Hale, which had before prayed and vsed theyr seruice al in Dutch, begā then to turne part into latin, & part into Dutch.

Worcest. Yea and at Wittembergh to.

Rog. Yea (but I could not be heard for the noise) in an Vniuersitie, where men for the most part vnderstand the Latine, and yet not all in Latine. And I would haue tolde the order & haue gone forward both to haue aūswered my Lord and to haue proued the thing that I had taken in hand: MarginaliaM. Rogers could not be heard to speake.but perceiuyng theyr talkyng and noyse to bee to noysome, I was fayne to thinke this in my hart (sufferyng them in the meane while to talke one of them one thinge, and an other a nother) Alas, neither wil, these men heare me if I speake, neither yet will they suffer me to write. There is no remedy but let them alone, and commit the matter to God. Yet I began to go forward, and said that I would make the textes to agree, and proue all my purpose wel enough.

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L. Chan. No, no, thou canst proue nothing by the scripture, The scripture is dead: it must haue a liuely expositor.

Rog. No, the Scripture is aliue. But let me go forward w^t my purpose.

Wor. All heretickes haue alledged the Scriptures for them: and therfore we must haue a liuely expositor for them.

Rog. Yea, all Heretickes haue alledged the scriptures for them: but they were confuted by the scriptures, and by none other expositor.

Wor. But they would not cōfes that they were ouercome by the scriptures, I am sure of that.

Rog. I beleeue that: and yet were they ouercome by thē, and in all Councels they were disputed with & ouerthrown by the scriptures. And here I would haue declared how they ought to proceed in these dayes, & so haue come againe to my purpose, but it was vnpossible, MarginaliaConfused talke wythout order.for one asked on thing an other said an other, so that I was fain to hold my peace,

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and let them talke. And euen when I would haue taken hold on my proofe, the L. Chauncelour bad, to pryson with me againe: and away, away (said he) we haue more to talke withall: if I would not be reformed (so he termed it) away, away. Then vp I stoode, for I had kneeled all the while.

Then MarginaliaSyr Rich. Southwell speaketh.sir Richard Southwell, who stoode by in a window, sayd to me: thou wilt not burne in this geare when it commeth to the purpose,  

I know well that.

Rog. Sir, I cannot tel, but I trust to my Lord God yes, lifting vp mine eyes vnto heauen.

MarginaliaThe B. of Ely speaketh.B. of Ely. Then my Lord of Ely told me much of þ^e Queenes Maiesties pleasure and meaning, and set it out wyth large wordes, saying that she tooke them that woulde not receiue the Bishop of Romes supremacy, to be vnworthy to haue her mercy. &c.

Rog. I sayd, I would not refuse her mercy, and yet I neuer offended her in all my life: And that I besought her Grace and all their Honors to be good to me, reseruinge my conscience.

MarginaliaDiuers speake at once.Diuers speake at once. No, quoth they then, a greate sorte of them, and specyally Secretary Bourne, a maried priest, and haue not offended the law?

Rog. I sayd, I had not broken the Queenes law, nor yet any poynt of the law of the Realme therin, For I maryed where it was lawfull.

MarginaliaDiuers speake at once.Diuers at once. Where was that, sayd they? thinking that to be vnlawfull in all places.

MarginaliaLawfulnes of priestes mariageRog. In Dutchland.  

And if ye had not here in England made an open law that Priestes might haue had wyues, I would neuer haue come home again: for I brought a wife and MarginaliaM. Rogers brought 8. children wyth hym into England.eyght children with me: which thinge ye might be sure that I would not haue done, if the lawes of the Realm had not permitted it before.

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Then there was a great noyse, some saying that I was come to soone with such a sorte: I should finde a soure cōming of it, and some one thing, some another. And one sayd (I coulde not well perceiue who) that there was neuer catholick man or countrey, that euer graunted that a Prieste might haue a wife.

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Rog. I sayd the Catholick Church neuer denied mariage to Priestes, nor yet to any other man, MarginaliaM. Rogers had away to prison.and therwith was I going out of the chamber, the sergeaunt which brought mee thether hauing me by the arme.

Wor. Then the B. of Worcester turned his face towardes me, and said that I wist not where that church was or is.

Rog. I sayd yes, that I could tell where it was, but therwith went the sergeant with me out of the doore.

This was the very true effect of all that was spokē vnto me, & of all that I answered therunto.

And here would I gladly make a more perfect answere to all the former obiections, as also a due proofe of þ^e which I had taken in hand: but at this present I was informed that I should to morrow come to further answere. Wherfore I am compelled to leaue out that which I would most gladly haue done, desiryng here the harty and vnfained help of the praiers of all Christes true members, the true impes of the true vnfayned Catholicke Church, that the Lorde God of all consolation, will now be my comfort, ayd, strēgth, buckler and shield: as also of all my brethren that are in the same case and distresse, that I and they all may despise al maner of threats and cruelty, and euen the bitter burning fire, and the dreadfull dart of death, and stick like true souldiers to our deare and louyng captain Christ, our onely redeemer, and sauiour, and also the only true head of the Church, that doth all in vs al, which is the very property of an head and is a thing that all the Bishops of Rome cannot doe,) and that we doe not traiterously run out of his tents, or rather out of the playne field from hym, in the most ieopardy of the battaile, but that we may perseuer in the fight (if hee will not otherwise deliuer vs) till we be most cruelly slayne of his enemies. For this I most hartely, and at this present, with weeping teares most instantly and earnestly desire & beseech you all to pray: MarginaliaM. Rogers carefull prayer for hys wife & children.And also if I dye, to be good to my poore and most honest wife, being a poore straunger, and all my little soules, hers and my Children. Whom with all the whol faithfull and true catholick congregation of Christ, þ^e Lord of life and death saue, keep and defende, in all the troubles and assaultes of this vain world, and bryng at the last to euerlastyng saluation, the true and sure inheritance of all crossed Christians. Amen, Amen.

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The xxvij. day of Ianuary at night.