1576 Edition | Book 11 | Page 1530 
Marginalia1555. Iune.Harps. Christ vsed ceremonies. Did he not take clay from the ground, and tooke spettle, and made the blind mā to see?
CloseJohn 9: 6-7.
Haukes. I wotte well that, but Christ did neuer vse it in Baptisme. If ye will needes haue it, put it to the vse that Christ put it vnto.
Harps. I admit your childe dye vnchristened: what a heauy case stand you in?
Haukes. I admit that if it do, what then?
Harps. Mary then are ye damned, and your child both.
Haukes. Iudge you no farther thē ye may by the scriptures.
MarginaliaThe state of children dying without Baptisme.Harps. Do ye not know that your childe is borne in originall sinne?
Haukes. Yes that I do.
Harps. How is originall sinne washed away?
Haukes. By true fayth and beliefe in Christ Iesus.
Harps. How can your childe beyng an infant, beleue.
Haukes The deliueraunce of it from sinne, standeth in the fayth of his parentes.
Harps. How proue you that?
MarginaliaThe beleuing parentes sanctifye the childe.Haukes. By Saint Paule in the. vij. and the first to the Corinthians, saying: The vnbeleuyng man is sanctified by the beleuyng woman, and the vnbeleuyng woman is sanctified by the beleuyng man, or els were your children vncleane.
Harps. I will proue that they whom thou puttest thy trust in, will be agaynst thee in this opinion.
Haukes. Who be those?
Harps. Your great learned men in Oxford.
Haukes. If they do it by the Scriptures, I wil beleue thē.
Boner. Recant, recant: do ye not know that Christ sayd, except ye be Baptised, ye can not be saued?
CloseBonner appears to be thinking of Mark 16: 16.
MarginaliaChristianity standeth not in outward ceremonies.Haukes. Doth Christianitie stand in outward ceremonies or no?
Boner. Partly it doth: what say ye to that?
Haukes. I say as S. Peter saith: Not the washing of water purgeth the filthynes of the flesh, but a good conscience consentyng vnto God.
Close1 Peter 3: 21.
Harps. Beware of pride, brother, beware of pride.
Haukes It is written: MarginaliaSirach. 10.Pride serueth not for men, nor yet for the sonnes of men.
Boner. Let vs make an end here. MarginaliaBoner commeth in with his Masse.Howe say you to the Masse sirha?
Haukes. I say it is detestable, abhominable, and MarginaliaMasse profitable for nothing.profitable for nothyng.
Boner. What? nothyng profitable in it? what say you to the Epistle and Gospell?
Haukes. It is good, if it be vsed as Christ left it to be vsed.
Boner. Well, I am glad that ye somewhat recant: recant all, recant all.
Haukes. I haue recanted nothyng, nor will do.
Boner. How say you to Confiteor?
CloseConfiteor (literally 'I confess' in Latin) is the form of confession used at the mass. What Haukes is objecting to is that this confession is made not only to God, but also to the Virgin Mary, St Michael and all the other saints.
MarginaliaConfiteor in the Masse a thing detestable.Haukes. I say it is abhominable & detestable, yea and a blasphemy agaynst God and his sonne Christ, to call vpon any, to trust to any, or to pray to any, saue onely to Christ Iesus.
Boner. To trust to any, we byd you not: but to call vppon thē, and to pray to them we byd you. MarginaliaBoners similitude to proue praying to Sayntes.Do ye not know when ye come into the Court ye can not speake with the Kyng & Queene, vnles ye call to some of the priuy chamber that are next to the Kyng and Queene?
[Back to Top]Haukes. They that list, receiue your doctrine. MarginaliaWe ought not to beleue in Saints Ergo, we ought not to call vpon them.You teach me that I should not beleue nor trust in any, but to call on them: and S. Paule sayth: How should I call vpon him, on whom I beleue not?
Boner. Will you haue no body pray for you, when you be dead?
MarginaliaPraying for the dead.Haukes. No surely, except you can proue it by the Scriptures. Then the Byshoppe pointed vnto Harpsfield and sayd vnto me: Is it not well done to desire this man to pray for me?
Haukes. Yes, surely, so long as we lyue, prayer is auaylable of the righteous mā: but this mās praiers, you beyng dead, profiteth nothyng at all.
Boner. Will ye graunt the prayer of the righteous man to preuayle?
Haukes. I graunt it doth for the liuing, but not for the dead.
Boner. Not for the dead?
Haukes. No forsooth, for Dauid sayth: MarginaliaPsal. 49.No man can deliuer hys brother from death, nor make agreement vnto GOD for hym: for it cost more to redeeme their soules, so that ye must let that alone for euer.
Also Ezechiell sayth: MarginaliaEzech. 14.Though Noe, Daniell, or Iob dwelt amongest them, yet can they in their righteousnesse exceede no farther then them selues. Then the Byshoppe sayd to Harpsfield: Syr, ye see this man hath no neede of our Lady, neither of any of the blessed Saintes. Well, I will trouble you no longer. I did call you, hopyng that you should do some good on him, but it will not be. And he sayd to me: MarginaliaBoner when he can not ouercome by doctrine, goeth about to oppresse by authoritie.Syr, it is tyme to begyn with you: we will ryd you
[Back to Top]away and then we shall haue one hereticke lesse.
Harps. What bookes haue you?
Haukes. The new Testament, Salomons bookes,
CloseI.e., Proverbs, the Song of Solomon, Ecclesiastes and possibly the Wisdom of Solomon.
Harps. Will you read any other bookes?
Haukes. Yea, if you will geue me such bookes, as I will require.
Harps. What bookes will you require?
Haukes. Latymers bookes, my Lord of Caunterburies booke, Bradfordes Sermons, Ridleyes bookes.
Boner. Away, away, hee will haue no bookes but such as mayntaine his heresies: and so they departed, for Harpsfield was booted to ryde vnto Oxford, and I went to the Porters lodge agayne.
MarginaliaThe next dayes talke.THe next day came thether an old Byshoppe,MarginaliaThis Byshops name was Byrd, byshop some tyme of Chester, and Sufferaigne before of Couentrye. who had a pearle in his eye, and he brought with hym to my Lord a dish of apples, and a bottle of wyne. For hee had lost his liuing, because he had a wife. Thē þe Bishop called me againe into the Orchard, and sayd to the old Byshop: this young man hath a child, and will not haue it Christened.
[Back to Top]Haukes. I deny not Baptisme.
Boner. Thou art a foole, thou canst not tell what thou wouldest haue, and that he spake with much anger.
MarginaliaB. Boner reproued for his anger.Haukes. A Byshop must be blameles or faultles, sober, discrete, no chider, not geuen to anger.
CloseHaukes is loosely quoting Titus 1: 7-8 and Timothy 3: 2-3.
Boner. Thou iudgest me to be angry: no by my fayth am I not, and stroke him selfe vpon the brest.
Then sayd the old Byshop: Alas good yong man, you must be taught by the Church, and by your auncients, and do as your fathers haue done before you.
Boner. No, no, he wyll haue nothing but the Scriptures, and God wot he doth not vnderstand them. Hee will haue no ceremonies in the Churche, no not one. What say you to holy water?
Haukes. I say to it, as to the rest, and to all that bee of his makyng that made them.
Boner. Why, the Scriptures doth alow it.
Haukes. Where proue you that?
MarginaliaSee how Boner proueth holy water by the scripture.Boner. In the booke of Kynges, where Elizeus threw salt into the water.
Haukes. Ye say truth: it is so written in the fourth booke of Kynges, the second Chapter: the children of the Prophetes came to Elizeus, saying: The dwelling of this Citie is pleasaūt, but the waters be corrupted. MarginaliaElizeus put salt in the water, not to washe away sinne, but onely to make the water sweeteThis was the cause that Elizeus threw salt into the water, and it became sweete & good: and so when our waters be corrupted, if ye cā by putting in of salt make them sweete, cleare, and wholesome, we will the better beleue your ceremonies
[Back to Top]Boner. How say ye to holy bread?
Haukes. Euen as I sayd to the others. What Scripture haue you to defend it?
MarginaliaBoner proueth holy bread by the 5. loaues and ii. fishes.Boner. Haue ye not read where Christ fed fiue thousand men with fiue loaues, and three fishes?
CloseMatthew 14: 17-21.
Haukes. Will ye make that holy bread? There Christ dealt fish with his holy bread.
Boner. Looke I pray you, how captious this man is.
Haukes. Christ did not this miracle, or other, because we should doe the like miracle, but because we should beleue and credite his doctrine thereby.
Boner. Ye will beleue no doctrine, but that whiche is wrought by miracles.
Haukes. No forsooth, for Christ sayth: MarginaliaMarke. 16.These tokens shall follow them that beleue in me: they shall speake with new tounges, they shall cast out Deuils, and if they drinke any deadly poyson, it shall not hurt them.
Boner. With what new tounges do ye speake?
Haukes. Forsooth, where before that I came to the knowledge of Gods worde, I was a foule blasphemer and filthy talker, since I came to the knowledge thereof, MarginaliaHow conuerted Christians do speake with new tongues.I haue lauded God, praysed God, and geuen thankes vnto God euen with the same toung: and is not this a new toung?
[Back to Top]Boner. How do ye cast out deuils?
Haukes. Christ did cast them out by his word, and he hath left the same word, that whosoeuer doth credit and beleue it, shall cast out deuils.
Boner. Did you euer drinke any deadly poyson?
Haukes. Yea forsooth that I haue: for I haue dronken of the pestilent traditions and ceremonies of the Byshop of Rome.
Boner. Now you shew your self to be a right hereticke.
Haukes. I pray you what is heresie?
MarginaliaB. Boner an hereticke by his owne definition.Boner. All thynges that are contrary to Gods word.
Haukes. If I stand in any thyng contrary thereto, then am I worthy so to be called.
Boner. Thou art one, and thou shalt be burned, if thou stād