Brad. Forsooth, we must seeke him MarginaliaThe way to come to Christ is by the word: for by the word commeth fayth by fayth we come to Christ.by his word, and in his word and after his word.

Harpsfield. Very good, but tell me nowe how first we came in to the company of them that could tell vs this, but by Baptisme?

Brad. MarginaliaBaptisme an outward seale wherby we are knowē to be Christians.Baptisme is the sacrament, by the which outwardly we are engrafted into Christ: I say outwardly, because I dare not exclude from Christ all that dye without Baptisme. I wyll not tye God, where he is not bounde. Some Infantes dye,MarginaliaChildren which dye without Baptisme. whose parentes desire Baptisme for them, and can not haue it.

Harps. To those we maye thinke perchaunce that God wil shew some mercy.

MarginaliaAn. 1555. Iuly.Brad. Yea, the children whose parentes do contemne Baptisme, wil not I condemne, because the Childe shall not beare the fathers offence.

Harpsfield. Well, we agree that by Baptisme then we are brought, and, as a man would say, begotten to Christ. For Christ is our father, and the Churche his Spouse is our mother. As all men naturally haue Adam for their father, and Eua for their mother: so all spirituall men haue Christ for their father, and MarginaliaThe Church is our mother.the Churche for their mother. And as Eue was taken out of Adams side, so was the Church taken out of Christes side: whereout flowed bloud for the satisfaction and purgation of our sinnes.Brad. All this is truely spoken.

MarginaliaDescent of the Church.

Harps. Now, then tell me whether this Church of Christ hath not bene alwayes?

Brad. Yea, sithens the creation of man, and shall be for euer.

Harps. Very good. But yet tell me whether this Church is a visible Church or no?

MarginaliaThe Church of Christ is vysible euen as Christ was. that is, not by exteriour pompe or shew, but by the inward eye.Bradford. It is no otherwise visible, then Christ was here on earth: that is, by no exteriour pompe or shewe that setteth her forth commonly, and therefore to see her we must put on such eyes, as good men put on to see and knowe Christ when he walked here on earth: for as Eue was of the same substaūce that Adam was of, so was the Church of the same substaūce that Christ was of, flesh of his flesh, and bone of his bones, as Paule sayth, Ephes. 5. Looke therfore how Christ was visibly knowen to be Christ whē he was on earth, that is, by consideryng him after the word of God, so is the Church knowen.

Harps. I do not come to reason at this present, & therfore I will go on forward. Is not this Church a multitude?

Bradford. Yes that it is. Howbeit, latet anguis in herba,  

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Foxe narrative

Foxe text Latin

latet anguis in herba

Foxe text translation

Not translated.

Translation (Wade 2003)

A snake lies hidden in the grass.

Harps. Ye diuert from the matter.

Brad. No, nothing at all. MarginaliaD. Harpsfield preuented of his purpose.For I do but preuent you knowyng well where about you go. And therfore fewer wordes might well serue if that you so would.

Harpsfielde. Well, I perceiue you haue knowledge, and by a litle perceiue I the more. Tell me yet more, whether this multitude haue not the Ministerie or Preachyng of Gods word?

Bradford. Syr, ye go about the bushe. MarginaliaPreaching of the Gospell goeth euer with the Church. vnles it be interrupt sometime by persecution.If ye vnderstand Preachyng for confessing the Gospell, I will go with you: for els if you will, you may know that persecution often letteth  

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Hindered or prevented.

Harps. Well, I meane it so. Tell me yet more: hath it not the Sacramentes administred?

MarginaliaAdministration of Sacramentes is one note, but not the cause of the true Church. And yet not such a note, but that it may often be letted by persecutiō, and yet the true church remayne.Brad. It hath the Sacramentes: howbeit, the administration of them is often letted. But I will put you from your purpose, because I see where about you goe. If Heretickes haue Baptisme and do Baptise, as they did in S. Cyprians tyme, you know this Baptisme is Baptisme, and not to be reiterate. This Bradford did speake, that the stāders by might see, that MarginaliaThe Popes church hath Baptisme and Sacramentes administred: Ergo the popes church is the true church MarginaliaThe argument fayleth. A causa non sufficiente, vel a non causa vt causa.  

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Foxe comment [Left margin]

Foxe text Latin

A causa non sufficiente, vel a non causa vt causa.

Foxe text translation

Not translated.

Translation (Wade 2003)

[The argument fails] from a not sufficient reason, or for no reason as (much as) for a reason(?)

Harps. You go farre from the matter, and I perceiue you haue more errours then one.

Brad. So you say: but that is not enough till you proue thē.

MarginaliaA Popish distinction of the Church, to be a multitude hauing preaching of the Gospell, ministration of the sacramentes, power of iurisdiction, and succession of Byshops.Harps. Well, this Church is a multitude. Hath it not the preachyng of þ^e Gospel, & the ministration of the Sacramentes? & yet more: hath it not the power of iurisdiction?

Bradford. What iurisdiction is exercised in persecution and affliction?

Harps. I meane by iurisdiction, admonishyng one an other, and so forth.

Brad. Well, go to: what then?

Harps. It hath also succession of Byshoppes. And here hee made much a do to proue that this was an essentiall point.

Bradford. You say as you would haue it: for if this part faile you, all the Churche you go about to set vp will fall down. You shall not find in all the Scripture this your essē-

tiall part of succession of Byshops.MarginaliaSuccession of Byshops is no essentiall part of the Church, but rather accidens commune, which being interrupted yet the church may stād as it did both before Christes comming and after, at the comming of Antichrist. In Christes Churche Antichrist will sit. And Peter telleth vs, as it went in the old Church afore Christes cōmyng: so will it be in the new church sithen Christes cōmyng: that is, as there were false Prophets, & such as bare rule were aduersaries to the true Prophetes: so shall there be (sayth he) false teachers, euē of such as are Byshops, and beare rule amongest the people.

Harps. You go alwayes out of the matter: but I wil proue further the succession of Byshops.

Bradford. Do so.

Harps. Tell me, were not the Apostles Byshops?

Brad. No, except you will make a new definition of a Byshop, that is, geue him no certaine place.

Harps. In deede, the Apostles office was not the Byshops office:MarginaliaApostles and byshops, be sundry offices. for it was vniuersall, but yet Christ instituted Byshops in his church as Paule sayth: he hath geuē Pastors, Prophetes. &c. so that I trow it be proued by the Scriptures the succession of Byshops to be an essentiall point.

Brad. MarginaliaThe ministery of Gods word and ministers, be an essentiall poynt of the true church but not the locall succession of ministers in one certayne place.The Ministerie of Gods worde, and Ministers, be an essentiall poynt. But to translate this to the Byshops and their succession, is a playne subtilitie: And therefore that it may be playne, I will aske you a question. Tell me, whether that the Scripture knew any difference betwene Byshops and Ministers, which ye call Priestes.

Harps. No.

Brad. Well, then go on forwardes, and let vs see what ye shall get now by the succession of Byshops, that is of Ministers, whiche can not be vnderstand of such Byshops as Minister not, but Lord it.

Harps. I perceiue that you are farre out of the way. By your doctrine you can neuer shewe in your Churche, a multitude which ministreth Gods word and his Sacraments, which hath iurisdiction and succession of Byshops, which hath from tyme to tyme beleued as you beleue, MarginaliaThe ascent and descent of succession of high Priestes.begynnyng now and so goyng vpwardes as I will do of our doctrine, and therfore are ye out of the Church, & so can not be saued. Perchaunce you will bryng me downewardes a shewe to bleare peoples eyes: but to go vpwardes, that can you neuer do, and this is the true triall.

Brad. Ye must and will, I am assured, geue me leaue to follow the Scriptures and examples of good men.

Harps. Yea.

Brad. Well then, Steuen was accused and condemned as I am, that hee had taught new and false doctrine before the fathers of the Churche then as they were taken. Steuen for his purgation improueth their accusation. But how? doth he it by goyng vpwardes? no, but by commyng downwardes, begynnyng at Abrahā, and continuyng still till Esayas tyme, and the peoples captiuitie. Frō whence he maketh a great leape vntill that tyme he was in, whiche was (I thinke) vpon a 400. yeares, & called them by their right names helhoundes, rather then heauen houndes. On this sort will I proue my fayth, and that can you neuer do yours.MarginaliaThe Papistes chaleng to them the true church euen as the mother of the dead child, challēged the lyuing child from the true mother 3. Reg. 3.

Harpsfield. Yea Syr, if we did know that you had the holy Ghost, then could we beleue you. Here Bradford would haue aunswered, that Steuens enemyes would not beleue he had the holy Ghost, and therfore they did as they dyd: but as he was in speakyng, M. Harpsfield arose vp, & the keeper and others that stode by, began to talke gently, praying Bradford to take heede to that Maister Archdeacon spake, who still sayd, that Bradford was out of the Church.

Brad. Syr, I am most certain that I am in Christes Church, & I can shew a demōstration of my Religion frō tyme to tyme continually.

MarginaliaBradfordes prayer.God our Father, for the name and bloud of his Christ, be mercyfull vnto vs and vnto all his people, and deliuer thē from false teachers, and blind guides, through whom (alas) I feare me, much hurt will come to this Realme of Englād. God our father blesse vs, and keepe vs in his truth and poore Church for euer. Amen.

Then the Archdeacon departed, saying that hee would come agayne the next mornyng.

¶ The next dayes talke betwene Doct. Harpsfield and Maister Bradford.  

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ECL 262, fos. 91r-93v is a copy of this examination among Foxe's papers. It was written by Augustine Bernher, the amanuensis of Hugh Latimer. Bernher may have copied the examination for Latimer or he may have copied it for the benefit of other protestants.

VPon the xvj. of February in the mornyng the MarginaliaArchdeacon Harpesfield returneth agayne to M. Bradford.Archdeacon and the other two with hym came agayne, and after a few by wordes spoken, they sat downe.

Harps. Maister Archdeacon began a very long Oration, first repetyng what they had sayd, and how farre they had gone ouer night, and therwith dyd begyn to proue vpwards succession of Byshops here in England for. 800. yeares: MarginaliaM. Harpesfield agayne proueth his church by succession of High Priestes.in Fraunce at Lyons for. 1200. yeares: in Spayne at Hispalen for. 800. yeares: in Italy at Millan for. 1200. yeres, labouring by this to proue his Church. He vsed also succession of Byshops in the East Church for the more cōfirmation of his wordes, & so concluded with an exhortation &