Marginalia1555. Iuly.Yorke. A prety matter, that you will take vppon you MarginaliaTo iudge the Church.to iudge the Church. I pray you where hath your Churche bene hetherto? For the Church of Christ is Catholicke & visible hetherto.

Brad. My Lord, I do not iudge þ^e church, when I discerne it from that congregation, & those which be not the Church, & MarginaliaThe church is catholick and visible, but yet some times more catholick visible then at some.I neuer denyed the Church to be catholicke and visible, although at some tymes it is more visible then at some.

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Chic. I pray you tell me where the church which allowed your doctrine, was these foure hundreth yeares?

Brad. I will tell you my Lord, or rather you shall tell your selfe, if you wlil tell me this one thyng, where þ^e church was in Helias his time, whē Helias sayd that he was left alone?

Chic. That is no aunswere.

Bradford. I am sory that you say so: but this will I tell your Lordshyp, that if you had the same eyes wherewith a man might haue espied the Church then, you would not say it were no answere. MarginaliaThe true church is visible & euer hath bin, but euery man hath not eyes to see it.The fault why the Churche is not sene of you, is not because the Church is not visible, but because your eyes are not cleare enough to see it.

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Chic. You are much deceyued in makyng this collation betwixt the Church then and now.

Yorke. Very well spoken my Lord, for Christ sayd ædificabo Ecclesiam,  

I will builde my Church, and not I do, or haue built it, but I will build it.

Bradford. My Lordes, Peter teacheth me to make this collation, saying: as in the people there were false Prophetes, which were most in estimation afore Christes comming, so shall there be false teachers amongest the people after Christes commyng and very many shall followe them. MarginaliaThe bishops driuen to an inconuenience.And as for your future tense, I hope your grace will not thereby conclude Christes Churche not to haue bene before, but rather that there is no buildyng in the Church but by Christes worke onely: for Paule and Apollo be but waterers.

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Chichester. In good fayth I am sory to see you so light in iudgyng the Church.

Yorke. He taketh vpō him as they all do, to iudge þ^e church. A man shall neuer come to certaintie that doth as they do.

Brad. My Lordes, I speake simply what I thinke, & desire reason to aunswere my obiections. Your affections and sorrowes can not be my rules. If that you consider the order and case of my condemnation, I can not thinke but that it should some thyng moue your honours. MarginaliaBradford cōdēned without iust cause but as was gathered at his iudgement against himYou know it well enough (for you heard it) no matter was layd agaynst me, but what was gathered vppon myne owne confession. Because I did denye Transubstantiation and the wicked to receiue Christes body in the Sacrament, therfore I was condemned and excommunicate, but not of the Church, although the pillers of the church (as they be taken) did it.

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Chichester. No, I heard say the cause of your prisonment was, MarginaliaFalse surmise againste Bradford.for that you exhorted the people to take the sworde in the one hand, and the mattocke in the other.

Brad. My Lord, I neuer ment any such thyng, nor spake any thyng in that sort.

Yorke. Yea, and you behaued your selfe before the Counsell so stoutly at the first, that you would defende the Religion then: and therfore worthely were you prisoned.

Brad. Your grace did heare me aunswere my Lord Chaūcellour to that poynt. But put case I had bene so stoute as they and your Grace make it: MarginaliaBradford imprisoned for that, for which he had the lawes on his side.were not the lawes of the realme on my side then? Wherefore vniustly was I prisoned: onely that which my Lord Chauncellour propounded, was my cōfession of Christes truth agaynst Transubstantiatiō, and of that which the wicked do receiue, as I sayd.

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Yorke. You deny the presence.

Brad. I do not, MarginaliaThe presence of Christes body to faith of the worthy receauer.to the fayth of the worthy receiuers.

Yorke. Why? what is that to say other, then that Christ lyeth not on the aultar?

Brad. My Lord, I beleue no such presence.

Chic. It seemeth that you haue not read Chrisostome, for he proueth it.

Bradford. Hetherto I haue bene kept well inough without bookes: howbeit this I do remember of Chrisostome, that he sayth MarginaliaHiperbolical phrase of Chrisostome.that Christ lyeth vppon the aultar, as the Seraphines with their toūges touch our lyppes with the coales of the aultar in heauen, whiche is an hyperbolicall loquution, of which you know Chrisostome is full.

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Yorke. It is euident that you are to farre gone: but let vs come thē to the church, out of þ^e which ye are excōmunicate.

Brad. I am not excommunicate out of Christes Churche my Lord, although MarginaliaBradford excommunicated with the poore blinde man. Iohn. 9.they whiche seeme to be in the Churche and of the Churche haue excommunicated me, as the poore blynd man was, Iohn. ix. I am sure Christ receiueth me.

Yorke. You deceiue your selfe.

Here, after much talke of excommunication, at length Bradford sayd.

Brad. Assuredly, as I thinke you dyd well to depart from

the Romishe Church, so I thinke ye haue done wickedly to couple your selues to it agayn: for you can neuer proue it, which you call the mother Church, to be Christes Church.

Chichester. Ah Maister Bradford, you were but a childe when this matter began. I was a young man, and then cōmyng from the Vniuersitie, I went with the worlde, but I tell you it was alwayes agaynst my conscience.

Bradford. I was but a child then: howbeit, as I told you, I thinke you haue done euill. MarginaliaThe pope proued to be Antichrist by Scripture.For ye are come and haue brought others to that wicked man whiche sitteth in the Temple of God, that is in the Churche: for it can not bee vnderstand of Mahomet, or any out of the Churche, but of such as beare rule in the Church.

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Yorke. See how you build your fayth vppon such places of Scripture as are most obscure to deceiue your selfe, as though ye were in the Church where you are not.

Brad. Well my Lord, though I might by fruites iudge of you and others: yet will I not vtterly exclude you out of the Churche. And if I were in your case, I would not condemne him vtterly, that is of my fayth in the Sacrament: knowyng as you know, that at the least. 800. yeares after Christ, MarginaliaWhat Bishop Tonstall writeth of transubstantiatiō.as my Lord of Duresme writeth, it was free to beleue, or not to beleue transubstantiation.

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Yorke. This is a toy that you haue founde out of your own brayne: as though a man not beleuying as the Church doth, that is transubstantiation, were of the Church.

Chichester. He is an hereticke, and so none of the Church that doth holde any doctrine agaynst the definition of the Church: as a man to hold agaynst transubstantiation. Cyprian was no hereticke though hee beleued rebaptising of them which were Baptised of heretickes, because he held it before the Churche had defined it, whereas if he had holden it after, then had he bene an hereticke.MarginaliaNote how these Bishops them selues doe graunt, that the time was when transubstantiation was not defined by the Church. Tonstall sayth it was more thā 800. yeares after Christ.

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Brad. Oh my Lord, will ye condemne to the deuill any man that beleueth truely the twelue Articles of the fayth (wher in I take the vnitie of Christes Church to cōsist) although in some poyntes he beleue not the definition of that whiche ye call the Church? I doubt not but that he which holdeth firmely th Articles of our belief, though in other thynges he dissent from your definitions, yet he shalbe saued.

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Yorke. Chichester. Yea, sayd both the Byshoppes? this is your Diuinitie.

Bradford. No it is Paules, which sayth, that if they hold the foundation Christ, though they build vppon him straw and stubble, yet they shalbe saued.

Yorke. Lord God, how you delite to leane to so hard and darke places of the Scripture.

Chic. I will shew you how that Luther did excommunicate Zuinglius for this matter, & so he read a place of Luther makyng for his purpose.

Brad. My Lord, what Luther writeth, as you much passe not, no more do I in this case. MarginaliaM. Bradford hangeth not of Luther, Zuinglius, or Oecolāp. & yet he accompteth them good men.My fayth is not builded on Luther, Zuinglius, or Oecolampadius in this point: and in deede to tell you truely, I neuer read any of their workes in this matter. As for them, I do thinke assuredly that they were, and are Gods children and Saintes with him.

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Yorke. Well, you are out of the Communiō of the Church.

Brad. I am not: for it consisteth and is in fayth.

Yorke. Loe, how you make your Church inuisible: for you would haue the Communion of it to consiste in fayth.

Brad. For to haue communiō with the Church needeth no visiblenes of it: MarginaliaCommunion of the church consisteth in faith, & not in visible ceremonies.for Cōmunion consisteth, as I sayd, in faith, & not in exteriour ceremonies: as appeareth both by Paule, which would haue one fayth, and by Irenæus to Victor, for the obseruation of Easter, saying that MarginaliaDisagreeing in rites breaketh no agreemēt in faith Ireneus.disagreeyng of fastyng should not breake the agreeyng of fayth.

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Chichester. That same place hath often euen wounded my conscience, because we disseuered our selues from the sea of Rome.

Bradford. Well, God forgeue you: for you haue done euill to bryng England thether agayne.

Yorke. Here my Lord of Yorke tooke a booke of paper of common places, and read a peece of MarginaliaAug. contra Epist. fundament.Saint Austen contra Epistolam fundamenti,  

howe that there were many thynges that dyd holde Saint Augustine in the bosome of the Churche: MarginaliaConsent of people:consent of people and nations, MarginaliaAuthoritie confirmed with miracles: nourished with hope: encreased with charity: established with antiquitie.authoritie confirmed with miracles, nourished with hope, encreased with charitie established with antiquitie: besides this, there holdeth me in the Church, sayth Saint Augustine, MarginaliaSuccession of Priestes:the succession of Priestes from Peters seate vntill this present Byshop. Last of all MarginaliaThe name catholicke.the very name of Catholicke doth hold me. &c. Lo (quoth he) how say you to this of Saint Augustine? paynt me out your Church thus.

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Brad. My L. these wordes of Saint Augustine make as much for me as for you: although I might aūswere, that all this, if they had bene so firme as you make them, might haue bene alledged agaynst Christ and his Apostles. For