Marginalia1555. December.the whole course of the law betwene his handes, which (as it might appeare) he had wel occupied, by the dust they were embrued withall.

Boner. There be the bookes: finde it now (if thou canst) and I will promise thee to release thee out of prison.

Phil. My Lord, I stand not here to reason matters of the Ciuill law, although I am not altogether ignoraunt of the same for that I haue bene a Student in the same sixe or vij. yeares: but to aunswere to the Articles of fayth with the which you may lawfully burthen me. And where as you go about vnlawfully to proceede, I challenge, accordyng to my knowledge, the benefite of the law in my defence.

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Boner. Why, thou wilt aunswere directly to nothyng thou art charged withall: therefore say not hereafter but you might haue bene satisfied here by learned men, if you would haue declared your mynde.

MarginaliaM. Philpot returneth agayne to his question of the Church.Phil. My Lord, I haue declared my mynde vnto you and to other of the Byshoppes at my last beyng before you, desiryng you to be satisfied but of one thing, whereunto I haue referred all other controuersies: the whiche if your Lordshyps now, or other learned men can simply resolue me of, I am as cōtented to bee reformable in all thynges, as you shall require: the whiche is to proue that the Churche of Rome (wherof you are) is the Catholicke Church.

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Couen. Why? do you not beleue your Crede, Credo Ecclesiam Catholicam?  

Phil. Yes that I do: but I cannot vnderstād Rome (wherwith all you burden vs) to be the same, neither like to it.

S. Asse. It is most euidēt, that S. Peter did builde the Catholicke Church at Rome.MarginaliaThat Peter dyd build the Church of Rome it is false, for both the scripture sayth, that Peter was set ouer the circumcised, & not ouer the Gentiles, & also it is to be proued by Orosius Suetonius, Tertullianus, and other storyes, that the fayth of Christ was in Rome in Tyberius tyme before Peter euer saw Rome. And Christ sayd: Tu es Petrus, & super hanc Petram ædificabo Ecclesiam meam.  

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Moreouer, the succession of Bishops in the sea of Rome can be proued from tyme to tyme, as it can be of none other place so well, whiche is a manifest probation of the Catholicke Church, as diuers Doctours do write.

Phil. That you would haue to be vndoubted, is most vncertaine, & that by the authoritie which you alledge of Christ, saying vnto Peter: Thou art Peter, and vppon this rocke I will build my Church, vnles you can proue the rocke to signifie Rome, as you would make me falsly beleue. And although you cā proue the successiō of Bishops frō Peter, yet this is not sufficiēt to proue Rome the catholicke Church, vnlesse you cā proue the succession of Peters fayth whereupon the Catholicke Church is builded, to haue continued in his successours at Rome, and at this present to remaine.

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Bon. Is there any mo churches thē one catholicke church? And I pray you tell me, into what faith were you baptised.

Philpot. I acknowledge one holy Catholicke and Apostolicke Church, wherof I am a member (I prayse God) and I am of that Catholicke fayth of Christ, where into I was Baptised.

Couen. I pray you, can you tell what this woorde MarginaliaCatholicke.Catholicke doth signifie? shew if you can.

Phil. Yes that I cā, I thāke God. The Catholicke fayth, or the Catholicke Church is not as now a dayes the people be taught, to be that which is most vniuersall, or of most part of men receaued, whereby you do inferre our fayth to hang vpon the multitude,MarginaliaThe Popes fayth hangeth vpon the multitude. which is not so: but I esteeme the Catholicke Church to be as S. Austen defineth the same. æstimamus fidē Catholicā a rebus præteritis, præsentibus, & futuris. i.  

MarginaliaFides catholica secundum August.We iudge (sayth he) the catholicke fayth, of that which hath bene, is, and shalbe. So that if you can be able to proue that your fayth and Churche hath bene from the begynnyng taught, and is, and shall be: then may you count your selues Catholicke, otherwise not. And Catholicke is a Greeke word compounded of κατὰ ,   whiche signifieth after or accordyng, and ὅλον,   a summe, or principle, or whole. So that Catholicke Churche or Catholicke Fayth is as much to say, as the first, whole, sounde, or chiefest fayth.

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Boner. Doth S. Austen say so as he alledgeth it? or doth he meane as he taketh the same? How say you M. Curtop?

Curtop. In deede (my Lord) S. Augustine hath such a saying speakyng agaynst the Donatistes, that the Catholicke fayth ought to be esteemed of thynges in tymes past, and as they are practised accordyng to the same, and ought to bee through all ages, and not after a new maner, as the Donatistes began to professe.

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Phil. You haue sayd well M. Curtop, and after the meanyng of S. Austen, and to confirme that which I haue sayd for the signification of Catholicke.

Couen. Let the booke be sene my Lord.

Boner. I pray you my Lord be cōtēt, or in good fayth I wil breake euen of & let all alone. Do you thinke the Catholicke Church (vntil it was within these few yeares in þ^e which a few vpō singularity haue swarued frō the same) hath erred?

Phil. I do not thinke that the Catholicke Church can erre in doctrine: but I require you to proue this Churche of Rome to be the Catholicke Church.

Curtop. I can proue that IreneusMarginaliaWhere M. Curtop findeth this, I can not say: but this I finde that Eusebius doth report that Irenæus did reproue Victor Byshop of Rome for his rash sentence in excommunicating the Churches of Greece concerning the obseruation of the feast of Easter. Euseb. lib. 5. cap. 26. Socr. lib. 5. cap. 22.(which was within an hundred yeeres after Christ) came to victor then Bishop of Rome, to aske his aduise about the excommunication of certayne heretickes, the which he would not haue done (by all lykelyhood) if he had not taken hym to be supreme head.

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Couent. Marke well this argument. Howe are you able to aunswere to the same? Aunswere if you can.

Phil. It is soone aunswered my Lord, for that it is of no force, neyther this fact of Ireneus maketh no more for the supremacie of the Byshop of Rome, then myne hath done which haue ben at Rome as well as hee, and might haue spoken with the Pope if I had list: and yet I would none in England dyd fauour hys supremacy more then I.

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S. Asse. You are the more to blame (by the fayth of my body) for þ^t you fauour þ^e same no better, since all the Catholicke Church (vntill these few yeares) haue taken him to be supreme head of þ^e Church, besides this good mā Ireneus.

Phil. That is not likely, that Ireneus so tooke him, or the primatiue Church: for I am able to shewe seuen generall Councels after Ireneus tyme wherin he was neuer so taken, whiche may bee a sufficient proofe that the catholicke primatiue Church neuer tooke him for supreme head.

The other Bish. This man will neuer be satisfied, say what we can. It is but folly to reason any more with him.

Phil. Oh my Lordes, would you haue me satisfied with nothing? Iudge (I pray you) who of vs hath better authority, hee which bringeth the example of one man goyng to Rome, or I that by these many generall Councels am able to proue þ^t he was neuer so taken in many hundred yeares after Christ, as by Marginalia7. Generall Councels in which the Byshop of Rome was neuer taken for supreame head.Nicene, Ephesine the first and second, Calcedone, Cōstantinopolitane, Carthaginens. Aquiliense.  

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Couen. Why will ye not admit the Church of Rome to bee the Catholike Church?

Phil. Because it followeth not the primatiue Catholicke Church, neither agreeth with the same, no more then an apple is like a nut.

Couen. Wherin doth it dissent?

Phil. It were to long to recite all, MarginaliaThe church of Rome discenteth from the primatiue church.but two thinges I will name: the supremacie and transubstantiation.

Curtop. As for Transubstantiation, albeit it was set forth and Decreed for an article of fayth not much aboue three hundreth yeares, yet it was alwayes beleued in the church.

Bon. Yea that it was. Very wel said of you master Curtop.

Phil. Yea haue sayd right, that MarginaliaTransubstantiation is but a late plantation.Transubstantiation is but a late plantation of the Byshop of Rome, and you are not able to shew any auncient writer, that the primatiue Church did beleue any such thing: and with this Curtop shranke away. And immediatly after, the Ambassadour of Spayne came in, to whom my Lorde of London went, leauyng the other with me. To whom I sayd: my Lordes, if you can shew me that this Church of Rome (wherof you are members) is the true Catholicke Church, MarginaliaIohn Philpot returneth againe to his issue.I shalbe content to be one therof, and as conformable to the same as you can require me in al thyngs: for I know there is no saluation but within the Church.

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Couent. Can you disproue that the Church of Rome is not the Catholicke Church.

Phil. Yea that I am able: but I desire rather to heare of you for the proofe therof. And seyng I cannot haue my request at your hands, neyther be satisfied with any probable authority, MarginaliaRome is not the Catholicke Church, and why?I will shewe you good proofe why it is not. For if the primatiue Church were Catholicke, as it was in deede, and ought to be the forme and Scholemastres of the Church to the worldes end: then is not the Church of Rome now the Catholicke Church which dissenteth so farre from the same both in doctrine and vse of the sacramentes.

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Couent. How proue you that the Churche of Rome nowe dissenteth in doctrine and vse the Sacramentes from the primatiue Church?

Phil. Compare the one with the other,MarginaliaComparison betwene the primatiue Church and the popes Catholicke Church. and it will soone appeare: as ye may see both in Eusebius and in other Ecclesiasticall and auncient writers.

Couent. What haue you to say more, why it is not the Catholicke Church?

Phil. Because it is not (by your owne interpretatiō of Catholicke), vniuersall neyther neuer was, albeit you falsly persuade the people that it is so. MarginaliaThe fayth of the Popes church was neuer vniuersall.For the world beyng deuided in three partes, Asia, Africa, and Europa, ij. partes therof, Asia and Africa professing Christ as wel as we, did neuer consent to the Church of Rome, which is of Europa: whiche is a sufficient testimony that your fayth was neuer vniuersall.

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Couent. How proue you that?

Phil. All thee Historiographers which write of the proceedynges of the Churche, doe testifie the same. Besides that, this present tyme doth declare that to be true which I say. For at this present the Churche of Asia and Africa doe not