Marginalia1555. Decemb.Rich. I maruaile then why you do deny the expresse words of Christ in the Sacramēt, saying: This is my body, and yet you wil not sticke to say it is not his body.MarginaliaObiection of the Lord Rich, why the wordes of this scripture are not to be taken: [this is my body.] Is not God omnipotent? and is not he able as well by his omnipotencie to make it his body, as he was to make man flesh of a peece of clay? Did not he say: This is my body which shal be betrayed for you? & was not his very body betrayed for vs therefore it must needes be his body.

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London. My Lord Rich, you haue sayd wonderfull well and learnedly. But you might haue begon with him before also in the vj. of Iohn, where Christ promised to geue his body in the Sacramēt of the aultar, saying: Panis quem ego dabo, caro mea est:  

The bread which I will geue, is my flesh. How can you aunswere to that?

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Phil. If it please you to geue me leaue to aunswere first my Lord Rich, I will also aunswere this obiection.

Rich. Aūswere my Lord of Lōdō first, & after come to me.

MarginaliaAunswere to B. Boners obiection.Philpot. My Lord of London may be soone aunswered, that the saying of Saint Iohn is, that the humanitie of Christ, whiche hee tooke on him for the redemption of man, is the bread of lyfe, whereby our bodyes and soules bee susteined to eternall life, of the which the Sacramentall bread is a liuely representation and an effectuall cohabitation to all such as beleue on his Passion: MarginaliaThe place Iohn. 6. expounded. [The bread that I vvill geue is my flesh. &c]and as Christ sayth in the same vj. of Iohn, I am the bread that came downe frō heauen, but yet he is not materiall neither naturall bread. Likewise the bread is his flesh, not naturall or substauntiall, but by signification, and by grace in a Sacrament.

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And nowe to my Lord Riches Argument. MarginaliaAunswere to the Lord Riches obiection.I doe not denye the expresse woordes of Christ in the Sacrament, This is my body: but I denye that they are naturally and corporally to bee taken: they must be taken Sacramentally and spiritually, accordyng to the expresse declaration of Christ saying, that the wordes of the Sacrament whiche the Capernaites  

tooke carnally, MarginaliaPapistes cater cosins to the Capernaites.as the Papistes now doe, ought to be taken spiritually, and not carnally, as they falsely imagine, not waying what interpretation Christ hath made in this behalfe, neither follow the Institution Christ, neither the vse of the Apostles and of the primatiue church, who neuer taught, neither declared no such carnall manner of presence as is nowe exacted of vs violently MarginaliaTransubstantiation hath neyther ground of Scripture, nor Antiquitie.without any grounde of Scripture or antiquitie, who vsed to put out of the Church all such as did not receiue the Sacrament with the rest, and also to burne that which was left after the receiuyng, as by the Canon of the Apostles and by the decree of the Councell of Antioch, may appeare.

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London. No, that is not so: they were onely Cathecumeni  

whiche went out of the Church at the celebration of the Communion, and none other.

Phil. It was not onely of such as were Nouices in fayth, but all others that did not receiue.

London. What say you to the omnipotencie of God? is not he able to performe that whiche he spake, as my Lord Rich hath very well sayd? I tell thee, that God by his omnipotencie may make him selfe to be this carpet if he will.

Phil. As concernyng the omnipotencie of GOD, I say that GOD is able to doe (as the Prophet Dauid saythMarginaliaPsal. 150.) what soeuer he willeth: but hee willeth nothyng that is not agreable to his woorde: as that is blasphemye whiche my Lord of London hath spoken, that GOD may become a Carpet.MarginaliaB. Boners vnreuerent and blasphemous speaking of God. For as I haue learned of auncient writers: Non potest Deus facere quæ sunt naturæ suæ contraria:  

That is, God can not doe that whiche is contrary to his nature, as it is contrary to the nature of God to be a Carpet. A Carpet is a creature, and God is the creator: and the creator can not bee the creature: wherefore vnlesse you can declare by the word, that Christ is otherwise present with vs then spiritually and Sacramentally by grace, as hee hath taught vs, MarginaliaThe omnipotency pretended in vayne.you pretende the omnipotencie of God in vayne.

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London. Why? will you not say that Christ is really present in the Sacrament? Or do you deny it?

MarginaliaChrist in the Sacrament really present to the receauer.Phil. I deny not that Christ is really in the Sacrament to the receauer therof, accordyng to Christes institution.

London. What meane you by really present?

MarginaliaWhat he calleth really.Phil. I meane by really present, present in deede.

London. Is God really present euery where?

Philpot. He is so.

London. How proue you that?

Phil. The Prophet Esay sayth: That God filleth all places: and wheresoeuer bee two or three gathered together in Christes name, there is he in the middest of them.

London. What? his humanitie?

Phil. No my Lord, I meane the deitie, accordyng to that you demaunded.

Rich. My Lord of London, MarginaliaB. Boner to weake for Iohn Philpot.I pray you let Maister Doctour Chedsey reason with him, and let vs see how hee can aunswere him: for I tell thee hee is a learned man in deede, and one that I do credite before a great many of you, whose

doctrine the Queenes Maiesty and the whole realme doth well allow, therfore heare him.

MarginaliaThe Lordes fall to drinking.London. My Lordes I pray you, will it please you to drinke? you haue talked a great while, and much talke is thirsty. I will leaue M. Doctour and him reasonyng together a while, with your leaue, and will come to you by and by agayne. He wēt (as I suppose) to make rowme for more drinke, after the Lordes had dronken.

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Rich. My Lord Rich sayd to the Lordes, MarginaliaLord Rich biddeth M. Philpot to drinke.I pray you let the poore man drinke, for he is thirsty: and with that, he called for a cup of drinke, and gaue it me, and I dranke before them all: God requite it him, for I was a thyrst in deede. Afterwardes Doctour Chadsey began in this wise, makyng a great processe, of the which this is the effect.

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MarginaliaChadsey beginneth to dispute with M. Philpot.Chad. M. Philpot findeth fault with the Conuocation house before your Lordshyppes, that he hath layne this long in prison, and that he had there a dosen Argumentes, wherof he could not be suffred to prosecute one throughly, Marginalia4. Vntruthes of Chadsey, at one clappe.whiche is not so: for he had *Marginalia* 1. Vntruth. leaue to say what hee could and was aunswered to asmuch as he was able to bryng: and when he had *Marginalia* 2. Vntruth. nothyng els to say, he fell to weepyng.  

I was there present and can testifie therof: albeit there is a booke abroad of the report of the disputation to the contrary, in the which there is *Marginalia* 3. Vntruth. neuer a true word.   And where as you requre to be satisfied of the Sacrament, I will shewe you the *Marginalia* 4. Vntruth. truth therof, both by the Scriptures, and by the Doctours.

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MarginaliaM. Philpot aunswereth D. Chadsey.Philpot. It is a shrewed lykelyhoode that you will conclude with any truth, since you haue begon with so manifest vntruthes, as to say that I was aunswered whiles I had any thyng to say, and that I wept for lacke of matter to say, and that the booke of the report of the disputation is nothyng true. GOD be prayse, there were a good many of Noble men, Gentlemen, and woorshypfull men that heard and sawe the doynges thereof, whiche can testifie that you here haue made an vniust reporte before these honourable Lordes. And that I wept, was not for lacke of matter, as you sclaunder me: for I thanke God, I haue more matter then the best of you all shall euer be able to aunswere, as litle learnyng as I haue: but my weepyng was, as Christes was vpō Hierusalē seing þ^e destruction that should fall vpō her: and I foreseyng then the destruction whiche you (thorough violence and vnrighteousnesse, which you there declared) would worke agaynst the true Churche of Christ and his faythfull members (as this day beareth witnesse) was compelled to weepe in remembraunce of that which I with infinite more haue felt and shall feele.

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All these wordes I dyd not then speake out, beyng interrupted by my Lorde Rich,MarginaliaIohn Philpot interrupted in his aunswere. saying that I shoulde suffer him to proceede out in his matter, and afterwards I should haue leasure to aunswere him in euery Article. But he promised more then he could performe as the ende dyd well declare: for hee had not the consent of the spiritualtie to hys promise, whiche now rule the rost. GOD shorten their cruell dayes, for his electes sake.MarginaliaPrayse be to the Lord for so he hath. And therefore I adde this, which I had purposed to haue spoken if then I might haue bene suffered, lest any that perfectly know not the thynges done in the Conuocation house and now layd to my charge, if they should not bee aunswered by me, might recken Doctour Chadseys sayinges to be true. And as concernyng the booke of the report of the disputations, I wrote the same, & it is true in euery Argument, as Maister Deane of Rochester, and Maister Cheyney Archdeacon of Harford (yet beyng alyue, and within this Realme  

) can testifie.

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Chadsey. You haue of Scriptures the foure Euangelistes for the probation  

of Christes reall presence to bee in the Sacrament after the woordes of consecration, with S. Paule to the Corinthians: which all say: Hoc est corpus meū: This is my body. They say not as you would haue me to beleue, this is not the body. MarginaliaChadsey proueth the Sacrament by the 6. of Iohn.But specially the. vj. of Iohn proueth the same most manifestly, where Christ promised to geue his body, which he performed in his last supper, as it appeareth by these wordes: Panis quē ego dabo, caro mea est, quā ego dabo pro mūdi vita:  

Latin/Greek Translations     Close

Chadsey, citing St. John, 6. 52.

Foxe text Latin

Panis quem ego dabo, caro mea est, quam ego dabo pro mundi vita.

[NB. Fuller citation than that given above on page 1701, Column 1, Line 12]

Foxe text translation

The bread which I will geue is my flesh, which I will geue for the life of the world.

Actual text of St. John, 6. 52. (Vulgate)

et panis quem ego dabo caro mea est pro mundi vita

[Accurate citation]

The bread which I will geue is my flesh, which I will geue for the life of the world.

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Phil. My Lord Rich, with your leaue, I must nedes interrupt him a little, because he speaketh opē blasphemy agaynst þ^e death of Christ: for if that promise brought in by S. Iohn was performed by Christ in his last supper then needed hee not to haue dyed after he had geuen the Sacrament.

Rich. Let Maister Doctour make an ende of his Argumentes, and afterward obiect to hym what you can.Chadsey. You must note that there is twise *Marginalia* So is there twise Ego too, and yet but one naturall body. Dabo in this saying of S. Iohn, & the first is referred to the Sacrament of the aultar & the second to the sacrifice vpō the crosse: and besides these manifest Scriptures, there be many auncient Doctours prouyng the same, as Ignatius, Irenæus, & S. Cyprian (whose authorities he recited at large) whiche I do omit because I was not permitted to aunswere the same.

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