MarginaliaAnno. 1556.Doctor. How say ye to this? This is my body whiche is giuen for you.

Newman. It is a figuratiue speech, one thyng spoken, and an other ment, as Christ saith: I am a vine, I am a dore, I am a stone, &c. Is he therfore a materiall stone, a vine, or a dore?

Doct. This is no figuratiue speach: For he saith: This is my body which is geuen for you, and so saith he not of the stone, vine, or dore: but that is a figuratiue speach.

New. Christ saith, MarginaliaThis cuppe is the Newe Testament, is a figuratiue speach.this cup is the new Testament in my bloud. If ye wil haue it so ment, then let them take and eate the cup.

Doct. Nay, that is not so ment, for it is a common phrase of speach among our selues: we say to our frend. drinke a cup of drinke, & yet we ment he should drinke the drinke in the cup.

New. Why if wee will haue the one so vnderstande, ye must so vnderstand the other.

Doct. Nay, it is a common vse of speach, to saie drinke a cup of Ale, or Beere? And therefore it is no figuratiue speach.

New. MarginaliaWhat is a figuratiue speache?The often vsing of a thing doth not make that thing otherwise then it is: but where soeuer one thyng is spoken, and an other ment, it is a figuratiue speach.

Doct. Well, we will not stande here about. How say ye by the reall presence? Is not Christes naturall bodie there that was borne of the virgine Mary?

New. No, I do not so beleue, neither can I so beleue: for the soule of man doth not feede vpon natural thinges, as the body doth.

Doct. Why, how then doth he feede?

New. I thinke the soule of man doth feede as the aungels in heauen, whose feeding is only the pleasure, ioy, felicitie, and delectation that they haue of God: and so the soule of man doth feede and eate, through faith, the body of Christ.

Colens. MarginaliaCollens reasoneth with Newman.Yea, but if the body do not feede vpon natural thinges, the soule can not continue with the body: therfore the body must needes feede vpon natural thinges, that both may liue together.

New. I graunt it to be true: but yet the soule doth liue otherwise then the body, whiche doth perishe: therefore naturall thinges doe but feede the body onely. I praie you what did Iudas receiue at the supper.

Colens. Mary, Iudas did receiue the verie bodie of Christ, but it was to his damnation. MarginaliaWhither Iudas receiued the bodie of Christe, or no?

New. Why? was the deuill entred into hym before. Then he had both the deuill and Christ in hym at one tyme.

Colens. Nay, the deuill did enter into him afterwarde.

New. Yea, and before to, what doe ye thinke? Had hee but one deuill. Nay I thinke he had rather a legion of deuils at the latter ende.

Colens. Well, put case it be so, what saye you to that?

New. Mary, if Christ & the deuill were both in Iudas at once, I pray you how did they two agree together?

Colens. We graunt they were both in Iudas at that tyme for Christ may be where the Deuill is, if he will, but the deuil cannot be where Christ is, except it please Christ.

New. Christe will not bee in an vncleane person that hath the deuill.

Thornton. MarginaliaD. Thornton reasoneth with Ihō Newman.Why, will ye not beleue that Christ was in hell, and ye will graunt that the deuill is there:and so might he be in Iudas, and if it pleased hym.

New. Christe woulde not suffer Mary Magdalene to touche him, whiche sought him at his graue, & did loue hym entirely: much lesse he will suffer an vngodly man to receiue hym into his vncleane body.

Thornton. Yes, seyng God may do all thinges, he may do what he list, and be where he will: And doth not the Psalme say: he is in hell, and in al places. Why should we then doubt of his beyng there?

New. Though his Godhead be in all places, yet that is not sufficient, to proue that his humanitie is in all places.

Thornt. No, doe you not beleue that God is omnipotent, and maie do all thinges?

New. I do beleue that God is almightie, and may doe all that he will do.

Thornt. Nay, but and if he be omnipotent, he may do al thinges, and there is nothyng vnpossible for him to do. MarginaliaThe omnipotencie of Christ doeth not proue hym to be really in the Sacrament.

New. I know God is almighty, and can do all that he will, but he can not make his Sonne a lier, he can not deny hym selfe, nor he can not restore virginitie once violated and defiled.

Thornt. What is that to your purpose. God doth not defile virginity: we speake but of thinges that god doth.

New. Why, will ye haue the humanitie of Christe in all places, as the deitie is?

Thornt. Yea, hee is in all places, as the deitie is, if it please him. MarginaliaAbsurditie in the Popes doctrine.

New. I will promise you that seemeth to mee a verie great heresie: for heauen and earth are not able to cōteine the diuine power of God, for it is in all places, as here and in euery place: and yet ye will say, that where so euer the deitie is, there is also the humanitie: and so ye will make him no bodie, but a fantasticall body, and not a body in deede.

Thornt. Nay, we do not say he is in all places, as the deitie is, but if it please him, hee may bee in all places, with the deitie.

New. MarginaliaThe humanitie of Christe maie not bee in all places.I promise you that it seemeth to mee as great an heresie as euer I heard in my life: & I dare not graunt it, lest I should deny Christ to be a very man, and that were against all the Scriptures.

Thornt. Tushe, what shall wee stande reasoning with hym? I dare saie he doth not beleue, that Christ came out of his mother, not openyng the matrice. Doe you beleue that Christe rose from death and came thorough the stone?

New. I do beleue that Christ rose from death: But I do not beleue that hee came thorough the stone, neither doth the Scripture so saie.

Thornt. Loe, howe saye you, hee doth not beleue that Christ came thorough the stone: And if he doth not beleue this, how shall he beleue the other? If he could beleue this, it were easie for hym to beleue the other. MarginaliaNote the grosse ignoraunce of this Suffragā.

New. The Scripture doth not saye hee went through the stone, but it saith the aungels of God, came downe and roled away the stone, and for feare of hym, the keepers became euen as dead men.

Thornt. A foole, foole, that was because the women should see that he was risen againe from death.

New. Well the Scripture maketh as much for me, as it doth for you and more to.

Thornt. Well, let vs not stand any longer about hym. Backe againe to the reall presence. How say ye, is the body of Christ really in the Sacrament, or no?

New. I haue aunswered you already.

Thornt. Wel, do ye not beleue that he is there really?

New. No, I beleue it not.

Thornt. Well, will ye stand to it?

New. I must needes stand to it, till I be persuaded by a further truth.

Thornt. Nay, ye will not bee persuaded, but stande to your owne opinion.

New. Nay I stand not to myne owne opinion, GOD I take to witnes, but only to the Scriptures of God, and that can all those that stand here witnes with me, and nothyng but the Scriptures: and I take God to witnes, that I do nothing of presumption, but that that I do, is onely my conscience, and if there be a further truth, then I see, except it appeare a truth to me, I can not receiue it as a truthe. And seyng faith is the gift of GOD, and commeth not of man, for it is not you that can giue me faith nor no man els, therefore I trust ye will beare the more with me, seyng it must be wrought by God, and when it shall please God to open a further truth to me, I shall receiue it with all my hart, and embrace it.

¶ Thornton had many other questions, which I did not beare away: but as I do vnderstand, these are the chiefest: as for tauntes, foolishe, and vnlearned, he lacked none. Praise God for his giftes, and God increase in vs strength.

MarginaliaArgument in þ^e second figure.If the bodie of Christ were really and bodelie in the Sacrament, then who soeuer receaued the Sacrament, receiued also the body.

The wicked, receauing the Sacrament, receaue not the bodie of Christ.

Ergo, the body of Christ is not really in the Sacrament.