Marginalia1558.preached, it is grounded vpon the word of God, set out also by the authoritie of two most mighty kyngs, with the consent of all the Nobility and Clergie of the same, so that I preached nothyng but their lawful proceedyngs, hauyng their lawful authoritie vnder their broad Seales for cōfirmation of the same, for whiche my doyng ye can not iustly charge me. For why, sithens the lawe ceased, I haue kept silence, so that the Counsaile which sent me vnto you, haue not charged me therwith. Wherfore ye doo me open wrong to burthen me with that wherin I am free.

Chaunc. What sir? ye are very captious, answearest thou my Lord after such a sort?

Rose. Syr (sayd I) I answere for my selfe, and according to the truth, wherewith ye ought not to be offended, if ye be of God.

Chaunc. Thou art an euyll man. Wast thou not abiured before now?  

Commentary     Close

Despite his indignant denials, Rose had submitted to the bishop of Norwich and confessed his belief in the Real Presence in the eucharist on 13 June 1555 (Norfolk and Norwich Record Office, Act 7/8/unfoliated).

Rose. No, ye vntruely report me, and are in no wise able to proue that which ye haue spoken: so that your wordes appeare to proceede altogether of malice, which I haue not deserued at your handes. But in this I well perceyue, ye are made an instrument to vtter other mens malice conceiued of old

Chaunc. What sayest thou to the reall presence in the sacrament?

Rose. I wist right well ye were made an instrument to seeke innocent bloud: wel ye may haue it, if God permyt, it is present and at hand, for I am not come hyther to lye, but to dye (if God see it good) in defence of that which I haue sayd. Wherfore ye may begyn when ye shal thinke good, for I haue sayd nothyng but the truth, & that which in those dayes was of all men allowed for truth, and against the which ye at that tyme durst not once whisper, although ye now brag neuer so much.

Bish. Wel father Rose, said he, what soeuer hath ben done in tymes past, shal not nowe be called in question, so that ye now submit your selfe. For not only you, but all the whole realme hath ben out of þ^e right way, both hie & low, spiritual & tēporal: but al notwithstāding haue submitted thē selues & acknowledged their faith. Wherfore if ye wyll be accoūted for an English man, ye must likewise submit your selfe.

Rose. My lord, I am an English mā borne, & do most hūbly require of the christian cōgregatiō of Englād, to be coūted as a particular mēber of þ^e same, & with all due reuerēce submyt my self as in forme & maner folowing: MarginaliaHow Tho. Rose submitteth hym selfe.That what soeuer law or lawes shall be set forth in þ^e same for the establishmēt of Christes true religiō, & that according to þ^e faith & doctrine of the holy patriarches & prophets, Iesus Christ & his holy apostles, with þ^e faithful fathers of Christes primatiue church: I doo not only hold it and beleue it, but also most reuerently obey it. At which my assertion the Bishop seemed to be greatly reioyced, & said: wel, then we shal soone be at a poynt. But sayd he, you shall take this for no day of examination, but rather of communication, so that ye shall nowe depart and pawse your selfe, vntyll we call for you agayne, and so ended our first meetyng.

MarginaliaThe 3 examination of Tho. Rose.ON the fryday folowing I was called agayn into Christes church w^tin their Ladies Chappel (as they termed it) where was gathered a great part of the whole Citie of Norwich, & after I was by my keeper presented, the Bish. began w^t a great protestatiō, & after many words demaūded of me, whether accordyng to my former promise, I woulde submyt my selfe or no? I answered as before I had don, that according to my former protestation I woulde most gladly obey. Then said the Chancellor, to vtter his gentlenes, I thinke ye doo but faine.

Rose. The fault then (sayd I) shal be in your selfe, & not in me. For if ye burthen me with nothing but scriptures, & the Fathers of Christes primatiue church, then, as I sayd before, so I say againe, I shall most gladly obey.

Chanc. Well then, seeing you challenge to be a member of the church of England, your mother here for trial of obedience, prouoketh you, as mothers are wont, to allure you to receyue this litle gyft at her hand.

Rose. Forsooth, said I, if shee offer it me, as receyued of God my father, I shall gladly receyue it, as from the hande of my very true and ghostly mother.

Chanc. What say you to MarginaliaAuricular confession.eare confession? is it not a law ecclesiastical, and necessary for the Church of England?

Rose. Some wayes it might be permitted, & some wayes not, & that because it had not his original of God & his blessed word: and yet I deny not, but that a man being troubled in his conscience, and resortyng to a descrete, sober, and christian learned man, for the quietyng of his mynd, might wel be permitted: but to bynd a man vnder paine of damnation, once euery yeare to number his sinnes into the eare of a filthy lecherous priest, is not of God,neyther can be appro-

ued by his word.

Bish. Ah sirrha, ye wyl admit nothyng but scripture, I see wel.

Rose. No truely, my Lord, I admit nothing but scripture for þ^e regimēt of the soule:MarginaliaNothing but scripture to be admitted for the regiment of the soule. for why, faith cōmeth by hearing, & hearing by the word of God, & where the word of god is not, there ought no beliefe to be geuen. For what soeuer is not of fayth, is sinne: and here they leaue of speakyng any more of that matter.

But then M. Chancelor began to whet his teeth at me, saying: Yea, but you haue here preached that the real, naturall, and substantiall presence of Christ is not in the sacrament of the altar: what say ye to that?

Rose. Verily I say, that you are a bloudy man, & seeke to quench your thirst w^t þ^e bloud of an innocēt, & therfore to satisfie you in that behalf, I say verily vnto you, that euē so I haue here preached: and although cōtrary to law, you charge me with þ^e same, yet wyl I in no wise deny it, though iustly I might doo it, but stand therunto, euen to seale it with my bloud, desiryng all that be here present, to testifie the same, and beleue it as the onely truth.

Bish. I charge you al beleue it not.

Rose. Yea? But my Lord, said I, if ye wyl needes haue credence geuen you, you must bring Gods worde to maynteyne your sayinges.

Bish. Why, doth not Christ say: This is my bodye? and can there be any playner wordes spoken?

Rose. It is true, my lord, the words be as plaine as cā be: And euē so be these, whereas it is said, I am a doore, a vine, & Christ called a stone, a Lyon, & yet is he naturally none of these. For they be al figuratiue speches, as both the scriptures and fathers doo sufficiently proue.

At which my saying, the Bishop would haue had me stay, saying, I should haue an other day, wherein I might take better aduisement.

Rose. Not so, my lord, said I, for I am at a ful point with my selfe in that matter, and am right wel able to proue both your transubstantiation, with the real presence, to be against the scriptures & the anciēt fathers of the primatiue church.MarginaliaTransubstantiation and Reall presence against the Scriptures and the auncient fathers of the primatiue Church. For Iustinus whiche is one of the ancientest writers that euer wrote vpō the sacramēts, writeth in his. 2. Apologie, that the bread, water, & wyne in the sacramēt, are not to be taken as other meates & drinkes, but be meates purposely ordeyned to geue thanks vnto God, & therfore be called Eucharistia, and also haue the names of the body and bloud of Christ, & that it is not lawfull for any man to eate & drinke of thē, but such as professed the religion of Christ, & liue also according to their profession: and yet, saith he, þ^t same bread & drinke is chaunged into our flesh & bloud, & norisheth our bodyes. By which saying it is euident, that Iustine meant that þ^e bread & wyne remaine styl, or els they could not haue ben turned into our flesh & bloud, and norish our bodyes. At which my saying they wer not a litle troubled, but enforced thē selues to haue denyed the Doctor, & would suffer me to speake no more, but strayt way was I carryed away vnto my lodging: and so ended the second day of myne apperance, which was the fryday in Whitson weeke, and then was I appoynted to appeare againe on the Monday folowyng. Howbeit, vpon what occasion, I know not, it was deferred vnto the Wednesday, which was Corpus Christi Euen.

IN the meane tyme the B. sent two of his chaplens to me, with whō I had cōmunicatiō about the real presence: and after long reasoning to & fro cōcernyng this poynt, at lēgth I droue them to this issue, whether they dyd confesse that Christ in the selfe & same body which was conceiued of the virgin Mary, & wherin he suffred & rose againe, doo in the selfe & same body, naturally, substantially, & really sit at the right hād of god þ^e father, w^tout returne frō thēce vntil þ^e day of þ^e general iudgmēt, or not? Wherūto they answered, yes truely, saide they, we cōfesse it, hold it, & beleue it. Thē I agayne demaunded of thē, whether they did affirme, after the words pronoūced by þ^e minister, there to remain flesh, blood, bones, heare, nayles, as is wont most grosly to be preached, or not? And they w^t great deliberatiō answered, þ^t they dyd not only abhorre þ^e teaching of such grosse doctrine, but also would detest thēselues, if they should so think. At which. 2. principal poyntes, wherin they fully confirmed my doctrine which I euer taught, I was not a litle cōforted & reioyced, but marueilously encoraged. Wherupō I demaūded agayne of thē, what maner of body they then affirmed to be in þ^e sacramēt? MarginaliaThe Papistes affirme the reall body of Christ to be in the sacrament but they know not how.Forsooth, said they, not a visible, palpable, or circūscriptible body, for that is alwayes at þ^e fathers right hand, but in the sacrament it is inuisibly, and can neither be fealt, seene, nor occupy any place, but is there by the omnipotencie of Gods word, they know not howe.