thus: This thyng fele you in your self that is in Christ Iesu, while he was in the forme of God. Sir, calleth not Paul here the forme of God, the substance or kinde of God? Also sir, sayth not the church in the houres of þ^e most blessed virgin accordingly hereto, wher it is written thus? Thou author of helth rememember, that sometyme thou toke of the vndefiled virgin, the forme of our body. Tell me for charity therfore, whether the forme of our body, be called here the kynde of our body or no?

¶ And the Archb. said to me: Wouldest thou make me to declare this text after thy purpose, since the Church now hath determined:MarginaliaThe papistes haue none other defence for them but onely the church, the church. that there abideth no substance of bread after the consecration, in the sacrament of the aulter? Beleuest thou not this ordinance of the church?

☞ And I sayd: Sir, whatsoeuer Prelates haue ordeyned in the Church, our belief standeth euer whole.MarginaliaEuery ordin?ce of Churchmen byndeth not our fayth. I haue not heard, that the ordinaunce of men vnder belief, should be put into beliefe.

¶ And the Archb. sayd to me: If thou hast not learned this before, learne nowe to knowe that thou art out of beliefe. If in this matter and other, thou beleuest not as the holye Church beleueth. What say Doctours treating of this Sacrament?

MarginaliaThe greatest Doctors of the church be Apostles.☞ And I sayd: Sir, S. Paule that was a great doctor of holy church, speaking to the people, and teaching them the right belief of this most holy sacrament:MarginaliaS. Paule calleth it bread. calleth it bread that we breake. And also in the Canon of the masse after the consecration:MarginaliaThe Canon of the masse calleth it bread. this most worthy Sacramēt is called holy bread. And euery priest in this lād, after that he hath receiued this sacrament, sayth in this wyse: That thing that we haue tak? with our mouth, we pray God that we may take it wyth a pure and cleane mynd. That is as I vnderstand, we pray God that we may receiue thorow very beliefe, this holy Sacrament worthely. And Sir, Saint Augustine sayth:MarginaliaS Austen calleth it bread. that thyng that is sene, is bread: but that mens faith asketh to be informed of, is very Christes body. And also, Fulgence an ententife Doctour sayeth: As it were an errour to say that Christ was but a substaunce, that is, very man, and not very GOD: or to say that Christ was very God, and not very man: so is it (this Doctour sayeth) an errour to say, that the Sacrament of the aulter is but a substaunce. And also Sir, accordingly hereto, in the secreat of the midde Masse on Christmas day, it is written thus:MarginaliaThe secret of the masse on Christmas day, nameth it a terrene substaunce. Idem refulsit deus, sic terrena substantia nobis conferat quod diuinum est: which sentence sir, with the secret of the fourth fery, quatuor temporum Septembris: I pray you sir declare here openly in English.

¶ And the Archbishop sayd to me, I perceyue well enough where about thou art, and how the deuill blyndeth thee, that thou may not vnderstand the ordinaunce of holy Churche, nor consent therto.MarginaliaMy Lord can reuile apace, he can declare but a litle. But I commaund thee now, aunswere me shortly: Beleuest thou that after the consecration of this foresayde Sacrament: there abideth substaunce of breade, or not?

☞ And I sayd: Sir, as I vnderstand it is all one to graūt or beleue, that ther dwelleth substance of bread, and to graūt and to beleue that this most worthy sacrament of Christes owne body is accident without subiect.MarginaliaChoke him vp my Lord. But Sir, for as mikle as your askyng passeth mine vnderstanding, I dare neither deny it nor graunt it, for it is schole matter, about which I besied me neuer for to know:MarginaliaTo graunt the reall beyng of the body wythout bread, is as much as to graunt, the accident to be without the subiect. and therfore I commit this terme accidens sine subiecto, to those Clerkes which delite them so in curious and subtile sophistry, because they determine oft so difficult and strange matters, and wade & wander so in them from argument to argument, with pro & cōtra, til that they wot not where they are, and vnderstand not thēselues.MarginaliaAgainst proud Sophisters. But the shame that these proud Sophisters haue to yeld them to men and before men, maketh them oft fooles and to be concluded shamefully before God.

¶ And the archb. sayd to me: I purpose not to oblige thee to the subtile arguments of clerkes,MarginaliaTemplum domini, Templum domini. since thou art vnable therto: but I purpose to make thee obey to the determinatiō of holy Church.

☞ And I sayd: sir, by open euidence and great witnesse, a M. yeare after the incarnation of Christ: the determination which I haue here before you rehearsed, was accept of holy Church as sufficient to the saluation of all them that would beleue it faythfully, and worke thereafter charitably.MarginaliaThe church stoode sounde till the fiende broke lose. But sir, þ^e determinatiō of this matter which was brought in since the fiend was loosed by Frier Thomas againe,MarginaliaTransubstantiation brought in by Frier Thomas Aquine. specially callyng the most worshipfull Sacrament of Christes owne body an accident without subiect: which terme, since I know not that Gods law approueth it in this mater, I dare not graunt, but vtterly I deny to make this Friers sentence, or any such other, my beliefe, do with me god what thou wylt.

¶ And the archb. sayd to me: Well, wel, thou shalt say otherwise or that I leaue thee.MarginaliaIt is happy he did not flie in his face as Boner did. But what sayest thou to this second point that is recorded against thee by woorthy men of Shrewsbury, saying: that thou preachedst there, that Images ought not to be worshipped in any wyse.

MarginaliaThe 2. points touching Images.
Thorpe charged with an vntruth. ☞ And I sayd: Sir I preached neuer thus, nor though Gods grace I will not any tyme cōsent to thinke nor to say thus, neither priuely nor apertly. For loe, the Lord witnesseth by Moses, that the thynges which he made were right good, and so then they were, and yet they are & shall be good, and worshypfull in their kinde.MarginaliaMan a worshipfull image of God. And therfore, to the end that God made them to, they are all praysable and worshipfull, & specially man that was made after the image and likenes of God, is full worshypfull in his kynde, yea this holy image that is man, God worshippeth. And herefore, euery man should worshyp other, in kynde, and also for heauenly vertues that men vse charitably. Also I say, wood, tyn, gold, siluer, or any other matter that images are made of: all these creatures are worshypfull in their kinde, and to the end that God made them for.MarginaliaThough mā accept the painting or caruing of images, yet is it not the right way to learne to serue God. But the caruing, castyng, or payntyng of any imagery, made with mans hand, albeit that this doyng be accept of man of highest state and dignitie, and ordained of them to be a Calender to leud men, that neither can nor will be learned to know God in his word, neither by his creatures, nor by his wonderfull & diuers workinges: Yet this imagery ought not to be worshypped in the fourme, nor in the likenes of mans craft. Neuerthelesse that, euery matter that painters paint with, since it is Gods creature, ought to be worshypped in the kinde, and to the end that God made and ordained it to serue man.

¶ Then the Archbyshop sayd to me, I graunt well that no body ought to do worshyp to any such images for themselues. But a Crucifixe ought to be worshypped for the passion of Christ that is painted therein, and so brought there through to mans mynde:MarginaliaThe image of the Trinitie. and thus the images of the blessed Trinitie, and of the virgine Mary Christes mother, & other images of saints, ought to be worshypped.MarginaliaA similitude of the kings seale or letters, to proue the worship of images. For loe, earthly Kynges and Lordes whiche vse to send their letters ensealed with their armes, or with their priuy signet to them that are with them, are worshypped of these men. For when these men receiue their Lordes letters, in which they see and knowe the willes and biddynges of their Lords, in worshyp of their Lords they doe of their cappes to these letters. Why not then, since in images made with mans hand, we may reade and knowe many diuers thyngs of God & of his Saints, shal we not worshyp their images?

☞ And I sayd, with my foresayd protestation I say, that these worldly vsages of temporall lordes that ye speake now of, may be done in case without sinne:MarginaliaNo similitude to be made betwene earthly thinges & spirituall, namely whē Gods word doth expresse to the contrary But this is no similitude to worship Images made by mans hande, since that Moyses, Dauid, Salomon, Baruch, and other saintes in the Bible, forbid so plainely the worshippyng of all such Images.

¶ Then the Archbishop sayd to me: Leud losell, in the olde law before that Christ tooke mankynd, was no lykenesse of any person of the trinity, neither shewed to man nor known of man: But now since Christ became man, it is lefull to haue images to shew hys manhoode. Yea, though many men which are right great Clerkes and other also, held it an errour to paynte the Trinitie: I say it is well done to make and to paynt the Trinity in Images. For it is great moouyng of deuotion to men, to haue and to behold the Trinitie and other images of Saintes, carued, cast, and paynted.MarginaliaSo you say my Lord, but God saith cōtrary in his commaūdemēts. For beyond the sea, are the best paynters that euer I saw. And sirs I tell you, this is their maner, and it is a good maner.MarginaliaPainters deuotion & the popes diuinitie doe well agree.
Preparatiō of the painters to make a faire & a deuoute Image. When that an Image maker shall carue, cast in moolde, or paynt any Images, he shall go to a Priest, and shriue hym as cleane, as if he should then dye: and take penaunce, and make some certayne vowe of fastyng or of praying, or pilgrimages doyng, praying the Priest specially to praye for him, that he may haue grace to make a fayre and a deuoute Image.

☞ And I sayd: Sir, I doubt not, if these paynters that ye speake of, or any other paynters vnderstood truly the text of Moyses, of Dauid, of the wyse man, of Baruch, and of other saintes and doctours: These paynters should be moued to shriue them to God with ful inward sorow of hart, takyng vpon them to do right sharpe penaunce for the sinfull & vaine craft of paynting, caruyng, or casting that they had vsed: Promising God faythfully, neuer to do so after, knowledging openly before all men their reprouable learnyng. And also Sir, these priestes that shriue (as you do say) paynters, and enioyne them to do penaunce, & pray for their speede, promising to them help of their prayers for to be curious in their sinful crafts: sinne herein more greuously, then the paynters.