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545 [521]

K. Henry. 4. Examination of Maister W. Thorpe.

Ghost: they trauailed with their handes, for to gette theyr liuelode, when that they might thus do for busie preachyng. Therfore by example of hymselfe, S. Paule teacheth all the priestes of Christ for to trauaile with their hand, when for busie teaching of the people they might thus do. And thus, all these Priestes whose priesthode God accepteth now, or will accept, or dyd in the Apostles tyme, and after theyr disease: will do to the worldes end.MarginaliaTithes by whom and when they were first cōmaūded in the new law. But (as Cisterciensis telleth) in the thousand yeare of our Lord Iesu Christ, 211. yeare, one Pope the x. Gregory ordeyned new tithes first to be geuen to priestes now in the new law. But Saint Paul in his tyme, whose trace or example all priestes of God enforce them to follow, seyng the couetousnes that was among the people, desiring to destroy this foule sinne thorough the grace of God and true vertuous liuyng and example of himselfe: wrote and taught all priestes for to follow hym as he followed Christ, paciently, willingly, and gladly, in high pouerty. Wherfore, Paul sayth thus.MarginaliaPaule hauing power to take, yet vsed it not. The Lord hath ordeyned, that they that preach the Gospell, shall lyue of the Gospell. But we (sayth Paul) that couet and busie vs to be faythfull followers of Christ, vse not this power.MarginaliaPaule wold not be chargeous. For lo (as Paul witnesseth afterward) when he was full poore and needy, preachyng among the people: he was not chargeous vnto them, but with hys handes he trauailed not onely to get his own liuyng, but also the liuyng of other poore & needy creatures.MarginaliaIf priestes were couetous than, what be they now? And since the people was neuer so couetous, nor so auarous (I gesse) as they are now: It were good counsayle that all priestes toke hede to this heauenly learnyng of Paul followyng him here in wilfull pouerty, nothing chargyng the people for their bodely liueloode.MarginaliaThis rule, with the rule of begging Friers, can not stand together. But because that many Priestes do contrary to Paule in this foresayde doctrine: Paul biddeth the people take hede to those Priestes that follow hym, as he had geuen them example. As if Paul would say thus to the people: Accept ye none other Priestes then they, that lyue after the forme that I haue taught you. For certain, in whatsoeuer dignity or order that any Priest is in, if he conforme him not to follow Christ and his Apostles in wilfull pouerty, and in other heauenly vertues, and specially in true preaching of Gods word: though such a one be named a Priest, yet he is no more but a priest in name, for the worke of a very Priest, in such a one wanteth. This sentence approueth Augustine, Gregory, Chrisostome, & Lincolne plainly.

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¶ And the Archb. sayd to me. Thinkest thou this wholsom learning for to sow openly, or yet priuily among the people?MarginaliaHolesome inough my Lord if your tast were to sauour it. Certein, this doctrine contrarieth plainly the ordinance of holy fathers which haue ordeyned, graunted, and licenced priestes to be in diuers degrees,MarginaliaBut it contrarieth not the ordinaunce, neyther of God nor of hys worde. and to liue by tithes and offrings of the people, and by other dueties.

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MarginaliaIf priestes would not slacke in their duetie, they should not lacke in hauing sufficient. ☞ And I sayd: sir, if priests were now in measurable measure and number, and liued vertuously, and taught busily & truly the word of God, by example of Christ and of his apostles, without tithes, offrings, and other duties that priestes now chalenge and take: the people would geue them freely, sufficient liuelode.

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¶ And a clerke sayd to me.MarginaliaFallax argumētum secundū, non causam vt causam. How wilt thou make this good, that the people will geue frely to priests their liuelode: since that now by the law euery priest can scarcely constrayne the people to geue them their liuelode.

☞ And I sayd.MarginaliaThe euil demeanor of the priestes, is the cause why the people be so slacke in their tithes. Sir it is now no wonder though the people grudge to geue priests the liuelode that they aske: Mekill people know now, how that priestes should liue, and how that they liue contrary to Christ and to hys Apostles. And therfore, the people is full heauy to pay (as they doe) theyr temporall goods to parsons and to other vicars and priestes, which should be faythfull dispensatours of the parishes goodes: takyng to themselues no more, but a scarce liuing of tithes, nor of offrings, by the ordinaunce of the commō law.MarginaliaPriestes being content with sufficiency, and a bare liuing, ought to part the residue to the poore. For whatsoeuer priestes take of the people (be it tithe or offering, or any other duety or seruice) the Priestes ought not to haue therof no more, but a bare liuyng: and to depart the residue to the poore men and women specially of the parish of whom they take this temporall liuyng.MarginaliaPriestes did so than, but our priestes doe not so now. But the most dele of Priestes now wasteth their parishes goodes, and spendeth them at their owne will after the world, in their vain lusts: So that in few places poore men haue duely (as they should haue) their owne sustenance, nother of tithes nor of offrings, nor of other large wages and foundations that priests take of the people in diuerse maners aboue that they nede for nedefull sustenaunce of meate and clothyng. But the poore nedie people are forsaken and left of Priestes to be sustayned of the parishens, as if the priests toke nothing of the parishens for to helpe the people with.

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And thus sir, into ouer great charges of the parishens they pay their temporall goods twise where ones might suffice, if Priests were true dispensatours. Also sir, the parish-ners MarginaliaWhether tithes are to be payd to priestes doing not their duetyie. that pay their temporall goodes (be they tithes or offerings) to Priestes that do not their office among theē iustly, are parteners of euery sinne of those Priestes: because that they sustayne those Priestes folly in their sinne, with theyr temporall goods. If these things be well considered, what wonder is it than sir, if the parishners grudge agaynst these dispensators?

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¶ Than the Archb. said to me, Thou that shouldest be iudged and reuled by holy Church presumptuously thou demest holy Church to haue erred in the ordinance of tithes and other dueties to be payd to priests. It shall be long or thou thriue Losell, that thou despisest thy ghostly mother.MarginaliaGostly mother? nay an vngostly stepdam, to all Gods children. How darest thou speake this (Losell) among the people? Are not tithes geuen to priestes for to liue by?

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☞ And I sayd: Sir S. Paule sayth, that tithes were geuen in the old law to Leuites and to Priestes, that came of the linage of Leuy.MarginaliaBy the law none could chalenge tithes, but onely the seede of Leuy. But our priestse he sayeth, came not of the linage of Leuy, but of the linage of Iuda, to which Iuda no tithes were promised to be geuen.MarginaliaOur priestes be not of the seede of Leuy. Ergo by the law our priestes cannot chalenge tithes And therfore Paule sayth, since the priesthode is chaunged frō the generation of Leuy to the generation of Iuda: It is necessary that changing also be made of the law. So that priests liue now, without tythes and other duety that they now clayme, followyng Christ and hys Apostles in wilful pouerty, as they haue geuen them example.MarginaliaAs the priesthood is chaunged so is the law chaunged. For since Christ lyued (all the tyme of hys preaching) by pure almes of the people, And by example of hym, his Apostles liued in the same wyse, or els by the trauaile of their handes as it is sayd aboue. Euery Priest, whose priesthode Christ appoueth, knoweth well, and confesseth in worde and in worke, that a disciple ought not to be aboue his maister, but it sufficeth to a disciple to be as hys maister, simple, and pure, meke and pacient: And by example specially of his maister Christ, euery priest should rule hym in all hys liuing, and so after his cunning & power, a Priest should busie him to enforme and to rule, whme so euer he might charitably.

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¶ And the archbishop said to me with a great spirit, Gods curse haue thou and mine for this teaching:MarginaliaBlesse but curse not saith S. Paule. for thou wouldest hereby, make the olde law more free and perfect thā the new law. For thou saiest, that it is lefull to Leuites and to priestes to take tithes in the old lawe, and so to enioy theyr priuilegies: but to vs priestes in the new law thou sayest it is not lawful to take tithes.MarginaliaHe goeth neare you my Lord, whē he toucheth your tithes. And thus thou geuest Leuites of the old law, more freedome than to priestes of the new law.

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☞ And I said. Sir I meruell, that ye vnderstand thys playne text of Paule thus.MarginaliaThe difference of the freedoms betwene the olde and new lawes Ye wotte well, that the Leuites and priestes in the olde lawe that tooke tithes, were not so free nor so perfect, as Christ and his apostles that tooke no tithes. And sir, there is a Doctor (I thinke that it is saint Ierome) that sayth thus. The priestes that chalenge now in the new law, tithes: Say in effect, that Christ is not becommen man, nor that he hath yet suffered death for mans loue. Wherfore, this Doctor saith this sentence.MarginaliaFor what cause tithes were geuē in the olde lawe. Since tythes were the hires and wages limitted to Leuites and to priestes of the olde law for bearing aboute of the tabernacle, and for slaying and sleing of beastes, and for burning of sacrifice, and for keeping of the temple, and for tromping of battell before the hoste of Israell, and other diuers obseruaunces that pertayned to their office: Those priestes that will chalenge or take tithes, deny that Christ is commen in fleshe, and doe the priestes office of the olde law, for whom tithes were graunted: for els (as this Doctor saith) priests take now tithes wrongfully.

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¶ And the archb. said to his clarkes. Heard ye euer Losell speake thus? Certaine, this is the learning of them all, that whersoeuer they come, & they may be suffered: they enforce them to expugne the freedome of holy church.

☞ And I said.MarginaliaIf you take away tithes, you vndo the church. Sir, why call you the taking of tithes, and of such other duties that priests chalenge now (wrongfully) the freedome of holy church: Since nother Christ nor his apostles, chalēgen nor tooke such dueties. Herefore these takings of priests now are not called iustly þe fredome of holy church, but all such geuing & taking ought to be called & hold?, the slaunderous couetousnes of men of the holy church.

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¶ And the archb. sayd to me. Why Losell, wilt not thou and other that are confedered with thee, seke out of holy Scripture, and of the sentence of doctours, all sharpe authorities agaynst Lordes, knights, and squiers, and against other secular men, as thou doest against priestes.

MarginaliaThorpe, preach agaynst whom thou wilt, so thou touch not this scabbe.☞ And I sayd: Sir, whatsoeuer men or women, lordes or ladies, or any other that are present in our preaching specially, or in our commoning after our cunning, we tell out to thē their office & their charges: But sir, since Chrisostom sayth, that priestes are the stomack of þe people, it is nedefull in preaching, and also in commoning, to be most busie about this

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priest
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