Critical Apparatus for this Page
None
Names and Places on this Page
Unavailable for this Edition
548 [524]

K. Henry. 4. Examination of maister W. Thorpe.

MarginaliaGod onely forgeeueth sinne, mā onely can counsell to leaue sin. naunce that they enioyne them.

And I sayd to him. Syr, it is all one to assoyle men of their sinnes, and to forgeue men their sinnes. Wherfore, since it pertaineth onely to God to forgeue sinne: It suffiseth in this cause, to counsell men & women for to leaue their sinne, and to comfort them that busie them thus to do, for to hope stedfastly in the mercy of God. And agayneward, Priestes ought to tell sharply to customable sinners, that if they will not make an end of their sinne, but cōtinue in diuers sinnes while that they may sinne, all such deserue paine without any end. And herefore, Priestes should euer busie them to liue well and holyly, and to teach the people busely and truly the word of God, shewyng to all folke in open preachyng and in preuy counseling that the Lord God onely forgeueth sinne. And therfore, those priestes þt take vpō them to assoile men of their sinnes, blaspheme God: since that it perteineth onely to the Lord, to assoyle men of all their sinnes. For no doubt, a thousand yeare after that Christ was mā, no priest of Christ durst take vpon him to teach the people, neither priuely nor apertly, that they behoued needes to come to be assoyled of them, as Priestes now do. But by authoritie of Christes word: Priestes bounde indurate customable sinners, to euerlasting paines, which in no time of their liuing, would busie them faithfully to know the biddinges of God, nor to keepe them. And againe, all they that would occupy all their wittes to hate and to flye all occasiō of sinne, dreading ouer all thyng, to offend God, and louing for to please him continually: to these men and women, Priests shewed, how the Lord assoyleth them of all their sinnes. And thus Christ promised to confirme in heauen, all the binding & loosing that Priestes by authoritie of his word, binde men in sinne that are indurate therin, or loose them out of sinne here vpon earth, that are verely repentaunt. And this man hearing these wordes sayd, that he might well in conscience cōsent to this sentence.MarginaliaShrift & confession to priestes. But he sayd, Is it not needefull to the lay people that caā not thus do, to go shriue them to Priests? And I sayd, If a man feele himselfe so distroubled with any sinne, that he cā not by his own witte auoyde this sinne without counsell of them that are herein wiser than he: In such a case, the counsell of a good Priest is full necessarie.MarginaliaA good secular man may be a coūseller where a priest faileth by S. Augustine. And if a good Priest fayle as they do now commonly, in such a case S. Augustine sayth, that a man may lawfully common and take counsell, of a vertuous secular man. But certaine, that man or womā is ouerladen and to beastly, which can not bring their owne sinnes into their minde, busieng them night and day for to hate & to forsake all their sinnes, doing a sigh for them after their cunning and power.MarginaliaMorden Mōke of Feuersam preaching of confession And sir ful accordingly to this sentence vpō Midlenton Sonday (two yeare as I gesse now agone) I hard a Monke of Feuersam that men called Moredome, preach at Canterbury at the crosse within Christ Church Abbey, saying thus of confession. That as through the suggestiō of the feend without counsell of any other body, of themselues many men and women, can imagine and finde meanes & wayes inough to come to pride, to theft, to lechery, and to other diuers vices: In contrary wise this Monke said. Since the Lord God is more ready to forgeue sinne than the feende is or may be of power, to moue any body to sinne:MarginaliaHarty repētaūce to God needeth no confession to a priest. th? whosoeuer will shame and sorow hartely for their sinnes, knowledging them faithfully to God, amending them after their power and cūning, without counsell of any other body than of God and himselfe (through the grace of God) all such men and women may finde, sufficient meanes to come to Gods mercy, and so to be cleane assoyled of all their sinnes. This sentence I said sir to this man of yours, and the selfe wordes as neare as I can gesse.

[Back to Top]

¶ And the archbishop sayd. Holy Churche approueth not this learning.MarginaliaNo nor nothing els that is good.

☞ And I sayd. Syr, holy Church of which Christ is head in heauen and in earth, must needes approue this sentence. For loe, hereby all men and women may, if they will, be sufficiently taught to know & to keepe the commaundements of God, and to hate & to flye cōtinually all occasion of sinne, and to loue and to seeke vertues busily, and to beleue in God stably, and to trust in his mercy stedfastly, and so to come to perfect charitie & continue therin perseuerantly. And more the Lord asketh not of any man here now in this life.MarginaliaChrist geueth freedome, the pope geueth thraldome. And certaine, since Iesu Christ died vpon the crosse, wilfully to make men free: Men of the Church are to bolde and to busie, to make men thrall, binding them vnder the paine of endles curse (as they say) to do many obseruaunces and ordinaūces, which neither the liuing nor teaching of Christ nor of his Apostles, approueth.

[Back to Top]

And a Clerke sayd thē to me: Thou shewest plainly here thy deceit, which thou hast learned of them that trauell to sow popple among þe wheat. But I coūsell thee to go away cleane from this learning, & submit thee lowly to my Lord, and thou shalt finde him yet to be gracious to thee.

¶ And as fast then an other Clerke sayd to me: How wast thou so bold at Paules crosse in London, to stand there hard with thy tippet bounden about thine head, and to reproue in his Sermon the worthy Clerke Alkerton, drawing away all that thou mightest: yea, and the same day at after noone, thou meetyng the worthy Doctour in Watlyng streete, calledst him false flatterer and hipocrite.

[Back to Top]

☞ And I said: Syr, I thinke certainly that there was no man nor womā that hated verely sinne, and loued vertues (hearing the Sermō of the Clerke at Oxford, and also Alkertons Sermon) but they said, or might iustly say, that Alkerton reproued the Clerke vntruly, and slaundered him wrongfully and vncharitably. For no doubt, If the liuing and teaching of Christ chiefly and of his Apostles be true, no body that loueth God and his law, will blame any sentence that the Clerke then preached there: since by authoritie of Gods word, and by approued Saintes & Doctours, and by open reason, this Clerke approued all thinges clearely that he preached there.

[Back to Top]

¶ And a Clerke of the archbyshops sayd to me, his Sermon was false, and that he sheweth openly, since he dare not stand forth and defend his preachyng that he then preached there.

☞ And I sayd: Syr, I thinke that he purposeth to stand stedfastly thereby, or els he sclaundereth fouly hymselfe, and also many other that haue great trust that he will stand by the truth of the Gospell. For I wote well, this Sermon is written both in Latin and English, and many men haue it, & they set great price therby. And sir, If ye were present with the archbishop at Lambeth when this Clarke appeared and was at his aunswere before the archbishop, ye wote well that this Clerke denied not there his Sermon, but two dayes he maintained it before the archbishop and his Clerkes.

[Back to Top]

And then the archbishop or one of his Clerkes said (I wote not which of them) that harlot shalbe met with, for that Sermon. For no man but he and thou, and such other false harlots, prayseth any such preaching.

¶ And then the archbishop sayd. Your cursed sect is busie, and it ioyeth right greatly to contrary and to destroy the priuilege and fredome of holy Church.

MarginaliaThe true freedome of holy church not destroyed but increased by true preachers. ☞ And I sayd. Sir, I know no men that trauell so busily as this sect doth (which you reproue) to make rest and peace in holy Church. For pride, couetousnes, and simony, which distrouble most holy Church: this sect hateth and fleeth, and traueleth busily to moue all other men in like maner, vnto meekenes and wilfull pouertie, and charitie, and free ministring of the Sacraments: this sect loueth and vseth, and is full busie to moue all other folkes thus to do. For these vertues, owe all members of holy church, to their head Christ.

[Back to Top]

Then a Clerke said to the archbishop: Sir, it is farre dayes, and ye haue farre to ride to night: therfore make an end with him, for he will none make. But the more, sir, that ye busie you for to draw him toward you, the more cōtumax he is made, and the farther fro you.

¶ And then Malueren said to me:MarginaliaTake my Lords blessing & stand vp. William, kneele downe, and pray my Lord of grace, and leaue all thy phātasies, and become a child of holy Church.

☞ And I said: Sir, I haue prayed the archbishop oft, and yet I pray him for the loue of Christ, that he will leaue his indignation that he hath against me: and that he will suffer me after my cunning & power, for to do mine office of Priesthode, as I am charged of God to do it. For I couet nought els, but to serue my God to his pleasing in the state that I stand in, and haue taken me to.

[Back to Top]

¶ And the archbishop said to me: If of good hart thou wilt submit thee now here meekely, to be ruled from this time forth by my counsell, obeyng meekely and wilfully to myne ordinaunce, thou shalt finde it most profitable and best to thee for to do thus. Therfore tary thou me no lenger,MarginaliaMy Lord hath hast, for being benighted. graūt to do this that I haue sayd to thee now here shortly, or denie it vtterly.

[Back to Top]

☞ And I sayd to the Archbyshop: Sir, owe we to beleue that Iesu Christ was and is, very God and verye man?

¶ And the Archbishop sayd: Yea.

☞ And I sayd: Sir, owe we to beleue that all Christes liuing and his teaching is true in euery point?

¶ And he sayd, yea.

☞ And I sayd: Sir, owe we to beleue, that the liuing of the Apostles, and the teaching of Christ, and all the Prophetes, are true whiche are written in the Bible, for the health and saluation of good people?

¶ And he sayd, yea.

☞ And I said: Sir, owe all Christen men & women after

their