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K. Hen. 4. The examination of W. Thorpe. Of tythes in the old law, and now vnder the Gospell.

nor cōmanded the people to pay tithes, neither to Priests nor to deacons. Marginalia Christ commaundeth almes, not tithes, except tithes be almes. But Christ taught the people to do almes, that is, works of mercy, to poore needie men (of surplus, that is superfluous of their temporall goods) which they had, more then needed reasonably to their necessarie liueloode. And thus (I sayde) not of tithes, but of pure almes of the people, Christ liued and his Apostles: when they were so busy in preaching of the word of God to the people, þt they might not trauell otherwise for to get their liueloode. But after Christes ascension, and when the Apostles had receiued the holy Ghost: they trauayled wyth their hands, for to get their liuelode, whē that they might thus do for busy preaching. Therefore by example of himselfe, S. Paule teacheth al the priestes of Chryst for to trauaile with their hand, when for busy teaching of the people they might thus do. And thus, all these Priests whose priesthode God accepteth now, or will accept, or did in the Apostles time, and after their discease: wil do to þe worlds end. But (as Cisterciensis telleth) in the thousand yeare of our Lord Iesus Christ. 211. yeare, one Pope the x. Gregory ordeined new tithes first to be geuen to priestes now in the new law. Marginalia Tithes by whom and when they were first commaūded in the new law. But Saint Paule in his tyme, whose trace or example all Priestes of God enforce them to follow, seing the couetousnes that was among the people, desiring to destroy the soule sinne through the grace of God & true vertuous liuing and example of himselfe: wrote & taught all priestes for to follow him as he followed Christ, pacyently, willingly, and gladly in hygh pouerty: Wherefore, Paule sayth thus. The Lord hath ordeyned that they that preach the Gospell, shall lyue of the Gospel. But we (saith Paule) that couet and busye vs to be faythfull followers of Christ, vse not this power. Marginalia Paule hauing power to take, yet vsed it not. For lo (as Paul witnesseth afterward) when he was full poore and needy, preaching among the people: Marginalia Paule wold not be chargeous. he was not chargeous vnto them, but wyth hys handes he trauayled not onely to get his owne lyuing, but also the lyuing of other poore and needye creatures. And since the people was neuer so couetous, nor so auarous (I gesse) as they are nowe: Marginalia If priestes were couetous than, what be they now? It were good counsell that all priests toke hede to this heauenly learning of Paul following him herein wilful pouerty, nothyng chargyng þe people for their bodily liueloode. But because that many Priests do contrary to Paule in this foresayd doctrine: Paul biddeth the people take hede to those priests that folow him as he had geuē them example. Marginalia This rule, with the rule of begging Friees, can not stand togeather As if Paul would say thus to the people: Accept ye none other Priests then they, that liue after the forme that I haue taught you. For certain, in whatsoeuer dignity or order þt any Priest is in, if he conforme him not to follow Christ & his Apostles in wilful pouerty, & in other heauenly vertues, and specially in true preaching of Gods word: though such a one be named a Priest, yet he is no more but a priest in name, for the worke of a very Priest, in such a one wanteth. This sentence approueth Augustine, Gregory, Chrisostom, & Limcolne plainly.

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¶ And the Archb. saide to me. Marginalia Holesome inough my Lord if your tast were to sauour it. Thinkest thou this wholesome learning for to sow openly,or yet priuily among the people? Certein, this doctrine contrarieth plainly þe ordynance of holy fathers which haue ordeined, graunted, & licenced priests to be in diuers degrees, & to liue by tithes & offrings of the people, and by other dueties. Marginalia But it contrarieth not the ordināce neyther of God nor of his worde.

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☞ And I said, sir, if priests were now in measurable measure & number, and liued vertuously, & taught busilye and truly the word of God, by example of Christ & of his apostles, without tithes, offrings, & other dueties that priests now chalenge & take: the people would geue them freely, sufficient liuelode. Marginalia If priestes would not slacke in their duetie, they should not lacke in hauing sufficient.

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Marginalia Fallax argumentum secundum, non causam vt causam. And a clerke said to me. How wilt thou make this good, that the people will geue freely to priestes their liuelode: since that now by the law euery priest cā scarcely cōstraine the people to geue them their liuelode.

☞ And I said. Sir it is now no wonder though the people grudge to geue priests the liuelode that they aske: Mekil people know now, how þt priests should liue, & howe that they liue contrarye to Christ & to his Apostles. Marginalia The euill demeanor of the priestes, is the cause why the people be so slacke in their tithes. And therfore, the people is ful heauy to pay (as they doe) their temporal goods to parsons and to other vicares & priests, which should be faythfull dispensatours of the parishes goodes: taking to thēselues no more, but a scarce liuing of tithes, nor of offrings, by the ordinance of the cōmon law. For whatsoeuer priests take of the people (be it tithe or offering, or any other duety or seruice) the priests ought not to haue thereof no more, but a bare liuing: & to depart the residue to the poore men & womē specially of the parish of whom they take this temporall liuing. Marginalia Priestes being content with sufficiency, and a bare liuing, ought to part the residue to the poore. But þe most dele of priests nowe wasteth their parishes goodes, and spendeth them at their owne wil after the world, in ther vain lusts: So that in few places poore mē haue duly (as they shouldhaue) their own sustenāce, nother of tithes nor of offrings nor of other large wages & foundations that priests take of the people in diuers maners aboue þt they nede for nedefull sustenance of meat & clothing. Marginalia Priestes did so than, but our priestes doe not so now. But the poore nedy people are forsaken and left of Priests to be sustayned of þe parishens, as if the priests toke nothing of the parishens for to help the people with.

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And thus sir, into ouer greater charges of the parishens they pay their tēporal goods twice where once myght suffice, if priests were true dispensatours. Marginalia Whether tithes are to be paid to priestes doing not their duetie. Also sir, the parishners that pay their temporal goods (be they tithes or offerings) to priests that do not their office amōg them iustly are parteners of euery sinne of those Priests: because that they sustaine those priestes folly in their sinne, with their temporal goods. If these things be well considered, what wonder is it thē sir, if the parishners grudge against these dispensators?

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¶ Then the Archb. said to me, Thou that shouldst be iudged & ruled by holy church, presumptuously thou deemest holy church to haue erred in the ordinance of tithes & other dueties to be paid to priests. It shal be long or thou thriue Losel, that thou despisest thy ghostly mother. Marginalia Gostly mother? nay, an vngostly stepdam, to all Gods children. How darest thou speake this (Losel) among the people? Are not tithes geuen to priests for to liue by?

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☞ And I said: Sir S. Paule saith, that tithes were geuen in the old law to Leuites and to Priests, that came of the linage of Leuy. Marginalia By the law none could chaleng tithes, but onely the seed of Leuy Our priestes be not of the seede of Leuy. Ergo by the law our priestes cannot chalenge tithes. But our priests he sayth, came not of the linage of Leuy, but of the linage of Iuda, to whych Iuda no tithes were promised to be geuen. And therfore Paule saith, since the priesthode is chaūged from þe generation of Leuy to the generation of Iuda: It is necessary that chāging also be made of the law. Marginalia As the priestbood is chāged, so is the law chaunged. So that priests liue now, wtout tithes & other duety that they now claime, following Christ & his Apostles in wilfull pouerty, as they haue geuē thē example. For since Christ liued (all the tyme of hys preaching) by pure almes of the people. And by example of him, his Apostles liued in the same wise, or els by þe trauaile of their hāds as it is sayd aboue. Euery priest, whose priesthode Christ approueth, knoweth wel, & confesseth in worde and in worke, that a disciple ought not to be aboue his maister, but it sufficeth to a disciple to bee as hys maister, simple, and pure, meke and pacient: and by example specially of his maister Christ, euerye Priest shoulde rule him in al his liuing, & so after his cūning & power, a priest should busy him to enforme and to rule, who so euer hee might charitably.

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¶ And the Archbish. said to me with a great spirite, Marginalia Blesse, but curse not saith S. Paule. Gods curse haue thou & mine for this teachinge: for thou wouldest hereby, make the olde law more free and perfect thē þe new law. For thou saiest, that it is leful to Leuites and to priest to take tithes in the old law, and so to enioy their priuilegies: but to vs priests in the new law, thou sayest it is not lawfull to take tithes. Marginalia He goeth neare you my Lord, when he toucheth your tithes. And thus thou geuest Leuites of the old law, more freedome than to priests of the new law.

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☞ And I said. Sir, I maruell, that ye vnderstand thys plaine text of Paule thus. Marginalia The difference of the freedoms betwene the old and new lawes. Ye wot well, that the Leuites and priests in the old lawe, that tooke tithes, were not so free nor so perfect, as Christ and his Apostles that tooke no tithes. And sir, there is a Doctor (I thinke that it is Saint Ierome) that saith thus. The priests that chalenge now in the new law, tithes: Say in effect, that Christ is not become man, nor that he hath yet suffered death for mans loue. Wherefore, this Doctor saith this sentence. Marginalia For what cause tithes were geuē in the olde lawe, Since tythes were the hires and wages limitted to Leuites and to priests of the old law for bearing about of the tabernacle, and for slayeng and fleing of beasts, and for burning of sacrifice, and for keeping of the temple, and for tromping of battell before the hoste of Israell, and other diuers obseruances that perteined to their office: Those priests that wil chalenge or take tithes, deny that Christ is come in the flesh, and do the priests office of the old law, for whome tithes were granted: for els (as this Doctor saith) priests take now tithes wrongfully.

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¶ And the archb. said to his clarkes. Heard ye euer Losell speake thus? Certaine, this is the learning of them all, that whersoeuer they come, and they may be suffered: they enforce them to expugne the freedome of holy Church. Marginalia If you take a way tithes, you vndoe the church.

☞ And I said. Sir, why call you the taking of tithes, and of such other duties that priests chalenge now (wrongfullie) the freedome of holy church: Since neither Christ nor his apostles, chalenge nor tooke such duties. Herefore these takings of priests now are not called iustly the freedome of holy church, but all such geuing and taking ought to be called and holden, the slanderous couetousnes of men of the holy church.

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¶ And the archb. said to me. Why Losell, wilt not thou

and